# What does "person of color" mean in 2019? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 17, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212 "2019-07-17T14:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/21 "2019-07-22T02:06:58Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The U.S. has always had a problem with this type of language, because the dominant groups had to justify their exploitation of others in public discourse by using ideas of race, so the language they used became critical. Notions of racial purity had to be maintained in the language itself, and we even see this today: Everyone says that Obama was a “black president,” but he was just as much a “white president”—he was both. Americans still cling onto these notions of racial purity, and most people are reluctant to use the word _mulatto_—as though it were a bad word. (Its equivalent in Spanish-speaking Latin American–where the Europeans mixed more with others–is generally accepted more neutrally.) The ideology is still ingrained and shaping our language. I am not sure of the point you are making in describing Obama, but despite his DNA he has always identified as black and has been treated as black his whole life. In an interview with Steve Kroft he said, “I think if you look African-American in this society, you’re treated as an African-American.” > [@](#): > > most people are reluctant to use the word mulatto—as though it were a bad word. It is a pejorative in the U.S. Nothing bad about the denotation, but then again, that is true of almost every taboo word. > [@](#): > > Some Arabs are “white” and some are not. Some Latin Americans are (primarily) “white” (of European origin), and some are not. Most are mixed. If you are confused by this maybe it’s because you’re confusing ethnicity (and nationality) with this notion of (white) racial purity that Americans cling to which I described above. I am not confused at all. When I say “there was a time” I was describing the prevalent view of the average American back in the 50s and 60s. Danny Thomas and Ricardo Montalban were considered white. By today’s definitions they would be “people of color.” I think. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/22 "2019-07-22T03:28:34Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > In an interview with Steve Kroft he said, “I think if you look African-American in this society, you’re treated as an African-American.” Yes, that’s my point. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Danny Thomas and Ricardo Montalban were considered white. By today’s definitions they would be “people of color.” I think. I don’t know much about those people, and that was before my time. What did being “considered white” entail, exactly? The term _person of color_, like many of these terms, is not referential–it’s ideological. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/23 "2019-07-22T10:22:53Z")
Danny Thomas was a Lebanese comic actor, born Amos Muzyad Yaqoob Kairouz. Most well-known among his many accomplishments was a very popular sitcom called _Make Room for Daddy_. Ricardo Montalban was a Mexican actor who was a star in Mexico then crossed over to American TV, film, and stage. He was probably most well-known for his role as Mr. Roark, the host on the popular TV series _Fantasy Island_, where he would give people a chance to live out their fantasy which was usually a “be careful what you wish for” scenario (scripted drama; this was not a reality show). He also had the title role in the second Star Trek movie in 1982. He also did TV ads for Chrysler, which were widely lampooned for his reference to “corinthian leather,” because nobody knew what that was. He had a Mexican accent and had this image of kind of a classy guy. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/24 "2019-07-22T12:45:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Anyone who has ever heard “Go back to where you’re from” counts as a POC. How about anyone who’s heard “We know you’re American, but what _are_ you?” (I was six. So were the people asking.) How about “Can I touch your hair?” (About four years ago.) And yet the census forms (at least, as of the previous census) make it utterly clear that Ashkenazi are supposed to identify as white; and I think most people of color and quite a lot of white people in current American society agree with that. I’m not disagreeing with it, exactly; enough people who look at me appear to think that I’m white that I generally get the benefits of that. (At the time of the incidents above, as well as at most of the others I can think of, I had a pretty good tan on visible areas.) I’m just pointing out that the line is blurry, and moves around depending both on the time and on the people using it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/25 "2019-07-22T12:53:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It essentially means a person that a white racist would not consider white. Exactly, they are the “them” that the white nationalists are chanting about at the rallies. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/26 "2019-07-22T13:08:59Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > How about anyone who’s heard “We know you’re American, but what _are_ you?” (I was six. So were the people asking.) > > How about “Can I touch your hair?” (About four years ago.) > > And yet the census forms (at least, as of the previous census) make it utterly clear that Ashkenazi are supposed to identify as white; and I think most people of color and quite a lot of white people in current American society agree with that. > > I’m not disagreeing with it, exactly; enough people who look at me appear to think that I’m white that I generally get the benefits of that. (At the time of the incidents above, as well as at most of the others I can think of, I had a pretty good tan on visible areas.) I’m just pointing out that the line is blurry, and moves around depending both on the time and on the people using it. I believe that “white-passing POC” is certainly a thing. I have white-passing relatives who have been discriminated against once they stopped passing, and they have also dealt with the horrible awkwardness of being privy to “backroom” racial bigotry and being too afraid to say anything. I don’t think there is a unifying POC experience, however. I think the feeling of “ethnic otherness” comes pretty close, but I imagine anyone can have this experience if they roam around long enough. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/27 "2019-07-22T13:23:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > 89% of the tea party are white, vs 1% who are black. I believe in the US as a whole, 60% of Americans are white vs 13% black. > > [Tea Party Supporters: Who They Are and What They Believe - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tea-party-supporters-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/) > > They dont’ detail what the other 10% are, but I’m guessing mostly latinos. But basically if the tea party hates you, you’re probably a POC. And if latinos make up the bulk of the remaining 10%, then you can assume that the tea party doesn’t have the same angst towards latinos as it does towards blacks. > > My ‘impression’ is that there are degrees of white supremacy targets. Blacks, muslims and arabs are hard targets while asians and latinos are softer targets for white nationalists. Thats my assumption. My guess is that those 10% are probably predominately Latino, with some Asians represented as well. As far as the Latinos, my guess is that those in the Tea Party probably think of themselves as White. The majority of them are probably people of Spanish and Portuguese descent rather than Mestizos with many Native American ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/28 "2019-07-22T13:40:13Z")
In the US, if white people look at you and automatically think “other” or “not like me” then you might be a POC. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/29 "2019-07-22T14:21:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I believe that “white-passing POC” is certainly a thing. As you quoted me when saying that: I don’t think I’m “white-passing”. It’s clear that I’m legally defined as white according to the census, and I’m pretty sure I’m defined by most people who see me as white, including those who know my heritage is Jewish (which I make no effort to conceal, and some effort to indicate, as in the name I choose to use). But there are significant exceptions to that, and I’ve had enough experience with them that there’s a corner of my head that’s very aware of those exceptions. ETA: on re-reading, I think you may have quoted me just for the blurry-line business, and that I may have been confused about what you were saying, rather than you being confused about what I was saying. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/30 "2019-07-22T14:45:48Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > As you quoted me when saying that: I don’t think I’m “white-passing”. It’s clear that I’m legally defined as white according to the census, and I’m pretty sure I’m defined by most people who see me as white, including those who know my heritage is Jewish (which I make no effort to conceal, and some effort to indicate, as in the name I choose to . How do you see yourself? I have a Jewish friend. I see her as “white folk with flava”, but she does not see herself as white at all. I don’t think my label is any less accurate than hers because they are made-up things either way. But I typically defer to self-identity in situations like this. If a person can articulate a semi-coherent argument for why one box works better for them than the box typically assigned to folks like them, then I am down for that. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/31 "2019-07-22T14:50:51Z")
I’m half-Jewish (or full Jewish if one ascribes to the “Jewish mother = Jew”) but I have a gentile last name and everyone treats me like I’m white. Generally, only close friends even know that I have Jewish ancestry – not that I hide it, but I generally don’t talk about myself much unless it’s with a close friend. I am not a POC in any way that matters, IMO. I get all the benefits and privileges of being a white guy in America. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/32 "2019-07-22T17:10:05Z")
Judaism is a religion, not a race, but most Jews in America are genetically an admixture of European and Levantine ancestry. Europeans are certainly not “people of color”. Levantines - i.e. people from the territories now known as Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, and parts of Egypt and Iraq - may or may not be “people of color” in the sense that there’s a wide variety of phenotypes there. These territories were at various times part of the Greek empire, the Roman empire, the Byzantine empire, and the Ottoman empire, as well as Norman crusades. Is Bashar Assad a person of color? Seems to me that “person of color” essentially comes down to what the individual person in question looks like. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/33 "2019-07-22T19:28:55Z")
A brief aside > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I have heard some west Asians (Pakistan, India) refer to themselves as “brown people” so maybe they feel like they want their own identity. We generally consider ourselves South Asians (or Desi - from the Indian subcontinent). And we consider ourselves brown people. I consider West Asian to be Middle Eastern people. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/34 "2019-07-22T20:20:03Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > A brief aside > > We generally consider ourselves South Asians (or Desi - from the Indian subcontinent). And we consider ourselves brown people. > > I consider West Asian to be Middle Eastern people. Thank you. I need to check my maps before posting 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212/35 "2019-07-23T13:20:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How do you see yourself? > > I have a Jewish friend. I see her as “white folk with flava”, but she does not see herself as white at all. I don’t think my label is any less accurate than hers because they are made-up things either way. But I typically defer to self-identity in situations like this. If a person can articulate a semi-coherent argument for why one box works better for them than the box typically assigned to folks like them, then I am down for that. For me, it’s more a matter of ‘neither of these boxes really fits’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-person-of-color-mean-in-2019/837212.md?page=1)