# What does Ralph Bakshi think of the recent LOTR trilogy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999 "2004-07-14T01:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/1 "2004-07-14T01:44:37Z")
I have read an [article](http://www.canoe.ca/JamLordOfTheRings/jun21_bakshi-can.html) that was made before Peter Jackson’s _Fellowship of the Ring_ was released, where Ralph Bakshi seemed to think he was owed some kind of credit for doing it first. But I’m now curious what Bakshi now thinks of the finished product. Does anyone know anything? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/2 "2004-07-14T01:56:56Z")
[Here](http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/7155.html)’s a very short interview of RB after the release of _Fellowship_. Some excerpts: > [@](#): > > JW: What did you think of “The Fellowship of the Ring”? > Ralph Bakshi: I haven’t seen it. Who needs the aggravation. > > … > > JW: Your LOTR film really helped out the new “Fellowship of the Ring”. Were you comfortable with your film being used as a rough draft? > Ralph Bakshi: No. Because there was never an acknowledgement of that. As a matter of fact, there was a complete denial of it for a long time. Jackson avoided mentioning me or my film, or the influence it had on him until he was forced to very late in the game. No more recent interview is mentioned. Sounds like some serious sour grapes to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/3 "2004-07-14T01:59:23Z")
Sounds like he’s rather ticked that someone managed to do LOTR competently. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/4 "2004-07-14T02:01:09Z")
Not enough sex, bad musical numbers, and poor animation for him. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/5 "2004-07-14T02:05:39Z")
I spoke too soon. Here’s an interview from this year. Not much on PJ’s films, though: > [@](#): > > SS: I know when you worked on LOTR, depicting the characters as Tolkien described them, and showing all the shades and all the variations of Middle-earth that was something at that time that let me know I was in the right place doing the right thing (when portraying Frodo in a play, as mentioned previously), and honored Tolkien’s vision. I wished that would have been carried on as comfortably in the recent adaptation by Peter Jackson. > > RB: No, he didn’t really get it. I’ve been hearing that a lot from people and it’s very nice; a real compliment, and I appreciate it. > > … > > RB: One has to respect writers. Tolkien is the greatest author of fantasy the world has ever had. One has to respect what he has done. You know, how could a guy sit down and change the dialog, you know, how arrogant. The arrogance that they’re going to change Tolkien and the main character in LOTR to make it a better picture?! Unbelievable! Man, anyone who’s actually seen Bakshi’s version has to really wonder if he has any right to criticize PJ. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/6 "2004-07-14T02:15:59Z")
All the shades of Middle Earth? What, from dark orange to dull brown? “You know, how could a guy sit down and change the dialog” As opposed to just chopping out huge swaths of it so the resulting mess doesn’t even make sense to people who’ve read the books? The best [summation](http://www.stomptokyo.com/movies/l/lord-of-the-rings-anim.html) I’ve seen of Bakshi’s version: “There are fifteen different kinds of animation in this movie – and they all suck.” ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/7 "2004-07-14T02:27:38Z")
Bakshi’s LOTR was at least as innaccurate Jackson’s. From Aruman to Spam-Viking Boromir and mentally challanged Sam, it was incredibly disrespectful. Plus, independent of the books, it was a really, really, _really_ bad movie. I mean, geeze, just incredibly ugly. Plus Jackson did acknowledge his debt to Bakshi, both silently by using his framing for some shots in FOTR, and out loud during the director’s commentary. IIRC, Bakshi’s version was PJ’s first exposure to the books, and led to a lifelong love for them. Had Bakshi’s version been my first exposure, it would have been more likely to lead to a lifetime obsesion with burning every copy. But that’s just me. Bakshi’s deluded as well as overrated. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/8 "2004-07-14T02:30:55Z")
Thanks for those. I’ve never liked Bakshi’s films, and it seems to me from these snippets that I wouldn’t like Bakshi himself either. He comes across as a bit of a petulant jerk. The thing that bothers me the most is that he seems to think Jackson copied him in places, but in fact they were both taking their imagery from the same source material so of course a few things are going to be very similar. It doesn’t take a genius to work that much out. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/9 "2004-07-14T02:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > JW: Your LOTR film really helped out the new “Fellowship of the Ring”. Were you comfortable with your film being used as a rough draft? > Ralph Bakshi: No. Because there was never an acknowledgement of that. As a matter of fact, there was a complete denial of it for a long time. Jackson avoided mentioning me or my film, or the influence it had on him until he was forced to very late in the game. Hey, Ralph! You know why he denied it until the films were already in theaters and making money hand over fist? Because any explicit connection between your movie and his would have been _fucking poison!_ The first hurdle Peter Jackson had to clear was convincing people he wouldn’t fuck up the books as badly as you did. The exsistence of your films _hurt_ the new LotR. You should be thankful he paid enough attention to your dreck to pick out the one or two good shots and throw 'em into his own work as an “homage.” Whiney little prick. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/10 "2004-07-14T06:00:24Z")
Isn’t it a little presumptous to Criticize Jackson’s LOTR, when apparently RB made only half the saga, suddenly ends it on a cliffhanger, with no indication up to this point that there this is only half of the saga? Or so I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/11 "2004-07-14T06:34:48Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Isn’t it a little presumptous to Criticize Jackson’s LOTR, when apparently RB made only half the saga, suddenly ends it on a cliffhanger, with no indication up to this point that there this is only half of the saga? “But, but,” says Bakshi, “he had unfair advantages! Like a budget, and talent!” The comments would be more presumptuous if he’d done even if a halfway decent job of making his movies. What they are is absurd. They’re ugly and dated-looking. “Rough draft” my ass. What he made was a disaster - like **Miller** said, their existence probably lowered the chances that there’d ever be a real LOTR movie - and he doesn’t deserve credit either as an influence or as a filmmaker. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/12 "2004-07-14T11:43:31Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > The thing that bothers me the most is that he seems to think Jackson copied him in places, but in fact they were both taking their imagery from the same source material so of course a few things are going to be very similar. It doesn’t take a genius to work that much out. There are scenes in both films that are strikingly similar. The prime example would be the scene in FOTR where all 4 hobbits hide under a tree root at the side of the road while the Nazgul comes riding up and sniffs around. The camera angle when the Rider is on the road above the hobbits is very much the same–if I hadn’t already known that Jackson had seen the Bashki version, I would have guessed it right here. This scene as played out in both films is not in the book: the closest occurs when Frodo, Sam, and Pippin (they don’t pick up Merry `til later) hide behind a tree when the Nazgul comes sniffing by. There is also the way the scene is set at the Prancing Pony where the Nazgul are seen brutally stabbing the hobbits in their beds–oh, no, wait, it’s just some pillows and bolsters, and the hobbits are safely sleeping elsewhere. While the trick of disguising the beds to look as if they are occupied in is the book, this fake-out set up, where the viewer is fooled along with the Nazgul, isn’t. Of course, Jackson does it better, intercutting shots of the sleeping hobbits with the Nazgul standing over the faked-up beds, while Bashki shows the attack, then only cuts to the hobbits sleeping in Aragorn’s room at the very end. These are actually two of the better-done scenes in the awful Bashki version, so I suppose it’s not remarkable that they made some impression on Jackson when he was putting together his own films. ---
**Author:** ![Grimpen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grimpen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grimpen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/13 "2004-07-14T12:34:41Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Isn’t it a little presumptous to Criticize Jackson’s LOTR, when apparently RB made only half the saga, suddenly ends it on a cliffhanger, with no indication up to this point that there this is only half of the saga? Or so I’ve heard. That’s correct. Bakshi’s version ended with the Battle of Helms Deep, as I recall. Again depending on my memory, the last words were a voiceover: “And so Frodo and his friends won.” No resolution of the problem posed by the Ring. No recognition that there was a loose end, let alone one of that magnitude. No journey to Mount Doom. Urk. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/14 "2004-07-14T12:52:21Z")
Ad mentioned before, Jackson did pay homage to a couple of scenes in Bakshi’s version. Maybe Ralph has a legitimate beef for not getting a little credit. But Bakshi’s film was just awful, and he’s quite deluded if he thinks he was being more respectful to the books than Jackson. [Another, sometimes quite funny, critique of the Bakshi film.](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) [An earlier SDMB thread trashing the Bakshi film.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=152658&page=1) ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/15 "2004-07-14T12:55:32Z")
> [@Grimpen](#): > > That’s correct. Bakshi’s version ended with the Battle of Helms Deep, as I recall. Again depending on my memory, the last words were a voiceover: “And so Frodo and his friends won.” > No resolution of the problem posed by the Ring. No recognition that there was a loose end, let alone one of that magnitude. No journey to Mount Doom. > Urk. Once I got past the surprise of it in my initial viewing of the Bashki version, this is actually one of the things I find the most funny about it. The way this movie ends, there doesn’t seem to be any reason for the hobbits to be in it at all. The last we see of Merry and Pippin is in Fangorn, when the Tasmanian-devil-looking Treebeard carries them off–for all we know, he had them for dinner. And the last we see of Sam and Frodo is heading into Mordor. This is perhaps a blessing. I really can’t see this poor brain-damaged Sam doing any of the brave things he’s supposed to in Mordor; if left up to him, Frodo would have died, the Ring would be taken by the Enemy, and Sauron would triumph. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/16 "2004-07-14T16:26:50Z")
Holy Cow, I really screwed up that second interview link, didn’t I? :smack: [Here it is](http://www.fulvuedrive-in.com/review.php?id=1031&filter=A), with my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/17 "2004-07-14T16:35:26Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > There are scenes in both films that are strikingly similar. The prime example would be the scene in FOTR where all 4 hobbits hide under a tree root at the side of the road while the Nazgul comes riding up and sniffs around. The camera angle when the Rider is on the road above the hobbits is very much the same–if I hadn’t already known that Jackson had seen the Bashki version, I would have guessed it right here. This scene as played out in both films is not in the book: the closest occurs when Frodo, Sam, and Pippin (they don’t pick up Merry `til later) hide behind a tree when the Nazgul comes sniffing by. I’m almost certain I’ve seen this image as an illustration. Does this ring a bell with anyone or am I imagining things? I was very familar with this scene, but I only saw the Bakshi version once around 20 years ago. So, the question would be, does the illustration pre-date the Bakshi version? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/18 "2004-07-14T17:18:13Z")
I’m glad to see that Bakshi has come through all of this with his ego and his sense of self importance intact. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/19 "2004-07-14T19:15:12Z")
Is Bakshi still alive? I coulda sworn I vowed to kill him after he butchered LOTR. Where’s my To Do list from grade 8? \ \ Ah ha, there it is… _kill Ralph Bakshi_ right after _get a date with Erin Gray_ Hmm, maybe I’ll add them to this years To Do list. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/20 "2004-07-14T19:29:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve never liked Bakshi’s films, and it seems to me from these snippets that I wouldn’t like Bakshi himself either. He comes across as a bit of a petulant jerk. Does it illuminate Bakshi’s character at all when you know that Comic Book Guy in _The Simpsons_ was at least partially based on him? I thought so. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999.md?page=2)