# What does Ralph Bakshi think of the recent LOTR trilogy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999 "2004-07-14T01:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/21 "2004-07-14T19:49:36Z")
> [@Grimpen](#): > > That’s correct. Bakshi’s version ended with the Battle of Helms Deep, as I recall. Again depending on my memory, the last words were a voiceover: “And so Frodo and his friends won.” > No resolution of the problem posed by the Ring. No recognition that there was a loose end, let alone one of that magnitude. No journey to Mount Doom. Incorrect. The voiceover says something like “Thus ends part one of Lord of the Rings.” A part two was definitely implied. As far as the tree root scene goes, I’m betting that there was artwork done before that. But I also have a distinct memory that that’s how it was described in the book. I had that scene in my head for years before I saw Bakshi’s version. And I thought Bakshi’s conception was brilliant. I liked it. Yes, I’m one of the three that did. Am I the only person in the world that noticed that Leonard Rosenman reused part of his LOTR score in Star Trek IV? ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/22 "2004-07-14T19:57:21Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Am I the only person in the world that noticed that Leonard Rosenman reused part of his LOTR score in Star Trek IV? No, you are certainly not. 😉 I’ve seen some of the Bakshi interviews where he talks about LotR – I know I read the Onion AV Club one – and there are a couple of places in there where he says people told him that Jackson’s movie is more focused on special effects and what not. As someone else said in this thread in nearly the same words, it really comes off as sour grapes. Bakshi’s movie actually scared me away from Tolkien for about ten years. But now that I know and love the book it’s really quite MSTable. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Grimpen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grimpen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grimpen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/23 "2004-07-14T21:14:02Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Incorrect. The voiceover says something like “Thus ends part one of Lord of the Rings.” A part two was definitely implied. That’s very interesting - is there any possibility (since it was, after all, a voiceover) that the film was re-edited after the initial theatrical release? I won’t swear to the full accuracy of my quotation, but I’m rather confident that when I saw it there was no implication of a part two. Again, perhaps I missed something: but I rather distinctly remember being irritated that apparently Bakshi had thought this was an adequate ending. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/24 "2004-07-14T21:51:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “But, but,” says Bakshi, “he had unfair advantages! Like a budget, and talent!” “And to top it all off, I wasn’t anywhere near the project! Cut me some slack for having to work with me, wouldja?” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/25 "2004-07-15T02:48:19Z")
It’s difficult to read Bakshi’s words and come way with any impression other than that he has emotional or psychological problems of some kind. The comment about Jackson changing Tolkein’s words is plainly bizarre; I read “The Lord of the Rings” and I am quite sure there’s no musical number in it called “Where There’s a Whip There’s a Way.” His I-can’t-believe-they-did-it-without-my-permission bit is just weird. Bakshi - let’s be quite honest - is not a particularly talented filmmaker. You can’t watch stuff like “Cool World” or his “Lord of the Rings” and reasonably conclude that the man knows much about anything. But a cult following seems to have given him some sort of delusional ego complex. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/26 "2004-07-15T03:08:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s difficult to read Bakshi’s words and come way with any impression other than that he has emotional or psychological problems of some kind. The comment about Jackson changing Tolkein’s words is plainly bizarre; I read “The Lord of the Rings” and I am quite sure there’s no musical number in it called “Where There’s a Whip There’s a Way.” His I-can’t-believe-they-did-it-without-my-permission bit is just weird. > > Bakshi - let’s be quite honest - is not a particularly talented filmmaker. You can’t watch stuff like “Cool World” or his “Lord of the Rings” and reasonably conclude that the man knows much about anything. But a cult following seems to have given him some sort of delusional ego complex. While I agree with your assessment of Bakshi’s talent, _Where There’s a Whip There’s a Way_ can’t be laid at his feet. That little . . . divertissment appeared in the second half of LOTR produced by Rankin-Bass when it became clear there would be nothing else coming from Bakshi. DD ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/27 "2004-07-15T03:27:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s difficult to read Bakshi’s words and come way with any impression other than that he has emotional or psychological problems of some kind. The comment about Jackson changing Tolkein’s words is plainly bizarre; I read “The Lord of the Rings” and I am quite sure there’s no musical number in it called “Where There’s a Whip There’s a Way.” His I-can’t-believe-they-did-it-without-my-permission bit is just weird. Actually, that’s from Rankin-Bass’s attempt to finish the story after Bakshi dropped the ball. It wasn’t very good, but at least it was easier on the eyes than Bakshi’s semi-animated abortion. Bakshi’s, IIRC, doesn’t have any musical numbers. I’ve seen others make that mistake. My theory is (and I’ve heard others here state it first), that Bakshi’s version is so bad, everyone sunconciously attributes every sucky thing connected to LOTR with it. I expect that ina few years, the least-beloved part’s of PJ’s trilogy will have sucked into Bakshi’s black hole of suck. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/28 "2004-07-15T03:53:25Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Had Bakshi’s version been my first exposure, it would have been more likely to lead to a lifetime obsesion with burning every copy. It almost did to me. I saw one of the animated versions of _The Hobbit_ as a child-although it could have been Rankin-Bass, I doubt if I’ll ever know)-and I was seriously turned off of Tolkien until I saw the Jackson movies. REFUSED to read him. And now I curse Bakshi for doing so, because I truly, truly loved that book. (Unless, of course the version I saw was Rankin-Bass’s, in which case, well, who cares, they both suck). I believe they were showing the Bakshi version of Cartoon Network recently. I caught a few scenes. Awful, awful film. I think his elves were the influence for Stephen Spielberg’s “Gremlins”. It was truly cringe worthy. In fact, I think if Mike and the 'Bots had had to watch this, they would have said, “Screw it, the Mads won.” [For your viewing pleasure](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showgall&gid=83). > [@Ogre](#): > > Does it illuminate Bakshi’s character at all when you know that Comic Book Guy in _The Simpsons_ was at least partially based on him? I thought so. 🙂 Was he really? Do you have a cite? Not that I don’t believe you but…damn. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/29 "2004-07-15T03:56:28Z")
Speaking of Rankin-Bass…how do THEY feel about Jackson’s version of _Return of the King_? Do they feel slighted like Bakshi, or are they too embarassed to admit their film even exists? Come to think, I can’t recall a single “homage” to the Rankin-Bass film; at least Jackson put in two for Bakshi. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/30 "2004-07-15T05:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Was he really? Do you have a cite? Not that I don’t believe you but…damn. Sorry, **Guin**. Maybe some of the more hardcore Simpsons fans can help. I don’t have a definitive cite, although I’ve read it in many sources, and the Usenet Simpsons archive ([http://www.snpp.com/guides/lisa-3.html](http://www.snpp.com/guides/lisa-3.html), about halfway down the page) mentions this factoid. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/31 "2004-07-15T06:14:19Z")
The best thing about Bakshi’s LOTR is the movie poster. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/32 "2004-07-15T06:26:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [For your viewing pleasure](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showgall&gid=83). > **[Council of Elrond » LotR News & Information](http://www.councilofelrond.com/imagegallery/113856/)** UGGGGGGGGGGG!!! :: My eyes! The googles do nothing! :: …runs from thread… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/33 "2004-07-15T06:46:25Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > [Council of Elrond » LotR News & Information](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=8816&orderby=titleA) > > UGGGGGGGGGGG!!! > > :: My eyes! The googles do nothing! :: > > …runs from thread… That’s nothing. Get a load of [THIS](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=1354&orderby=titleA). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/34 "2004-07-15T06:49:38Z")
Or, for that matter, [this](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=1356&orderby=titleA). ---
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/35 "2004-07-15T07:03:20Z")
Gondor has no pants. Gondor **needs** no pants. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/36 "2004-07-15T07:28:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It almost did to me. I saw one of the animated versions of _The Hobbit_ as a child-although it could have been Rankin-Bass, I doubt if I’ll ever know It was Rankin-Bass. Now you know :). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/37 "2004-07-15T07:48:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It almost did to me. I saw one of the animated versions of _The Hobbit_ as a child-although it could have been Rankin-Bass, I doubt if I’ll ever know)- Actually, **Guin** , you will. Because one of the things that the SDMB is all about is being a place where EVERY STINKING BIT of knowledge that has ever lodged in your brain will be useful to someone. So I’m here to tell you that the animated version of _The Hobbit_, featuring the voice talents of Orson Bean, as Bilbo Baggins; Hans Conried, as Thorin Oakenshield; and Paul Frees, as probably an assload of other characters, was produced by Rankin-Bass. I was not enthusiastic about seeing it upon its initial release; however, I did like it well enough to let it be Michaela’s introduction to Tolkien (although, what with being produced by R-B, I did feel a bit cheated by the lack of Animagic[sup]TM[/sup] characters proceeding jerkily across the screen). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/38 "2004-07-15T13:34:20Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Sorry, **Guin**. Maybe some of the more hardcore Simpsons fans can help. I don’t have a definitive cite, although I’ve read it in many sources, and the Usenet Simpsons archive ([http://www.snpp.com/guides/lisa-3.html](http://www.snpp.com/guides/lisa-3.html), about halfway down the page) mentions this factoid. While I guess I’m on record as hating Ralph Bakshi, I don’t really see how Comic Book Guy is based on him, and this sounds to me like urban myth. I scoured the web and found this mentioned a thousand times but only as a truth-by-assertion statement, which suggests that one person said it and it got spread from there. Comic Book Guy is pretty much the ultimately stereotypical 80’s nerd, the guy who knows every line of dialogue in “Wrath of Khan” (Best. Trek. Movie. Ever.) and has educated opinions on who would win in a fight between Wolverine and Spider-Man, but is not so smooth with the ladies. Every single bit of his character is drawn straight from the kid you knew in Grade 7 who played a lot of Mechwarrior and D&D and cried when he was hit with the dodgeball. You don’t need Ralph Bakshi to create CBG. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/39 "2004-07-15T13:35:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I believe they were showing the Bakshi version of Cartoon Network recently. I caught a few scenes. Awful, awful film. I think his elves were the influence for Stephen Spielberg’s “Gremlins”. 😕 Bakshi’s elves were like gremlins? Are you sure you’re talking about Bakshi? Are you sure you’re not thinking of Rankin’s/Bass’s elves, of which the elf king talks like a certain California governator? Let me guess – you probably think that Bakshi’s Gollum looked like a big frog, right? This makes me wonder how much flak Bakshi unfairly gets for the folly that is R/B. Personally, I’d pit Bakshi’s Galadrial against Cate Blanchett any day. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/40 "2004-07-15T15:27:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Comic Book Guy is pretty much the ultimately stereotypical 80’s nerd, the guy who knows every line of dialogue in “Wrath of Khan” (Best. Trek. Movie. Ever.) and has educated opinions on who would win in a fight between Wolverine and Spider-Man, But no matter how educated ones opinions are, we will never, **ever** live to see a consensus on who would win in a fight between the Enterprise and a Star Destroyer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999.md?page=3)