# What does Ralph Bakshi think of the recent LOTR trilogy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999 "2004-07-14T01:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/41 "2004-07-15T15:45:18Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > šŸ˜• > > Bakshiā€™s elves were like gremlins? Are you sure youā€™re talking about Bakshi? Are you sure youā€™re not thinking of Rankinā€™s/Bassā€™s elves, of which the elf king talks like a certain California governator? Let me guess ā€“ you probably think that Bakshiā€™s Gollum looked like a big frog, right? > > This makes me wonder how much flak Bakshi unfairly gets for the folly that is R/B. I donā€™t think it can be Bakshiā€™s elves; they are light, bright, and sparkly (see the pictures in the flyingmoose review linked above). Itā€™s been years since Iā€™ve seen it, but I do recall that Tharanduil (King of the Mirkwood Elves and Legolasā€™s dad) as he appears in the R/B _Hobbit_ rather resembles a stick insect, and the idea of his inspiring the Gremlins isnā€™t too farfetched. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/42 "2004-07-15T15:52:14Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Incorrect. The voiceover says something like ā€œThus ends part one of Lord of the Rings.ā€ A part two was definitely implied. > > As far as the tree root scene goes, Iā€™m betting that there was artwork done before that. But I also have a distinct memory that thatā€™s how it was described in the book. I had that scene in my head for years before I saw Bakshiā€™s version. As I said in my original message, there is a passage in the book where 3 hobbits get off the road and hide behind a tree, and is the obvious inspiration for this scene, but isnā€™t as similar as the two film scenes are to each other. Iā€™m at work now, but will look this up when I get home. As a proud owner of the Bakshi film on DVD, I will check out the voiceover at the ending this evening too. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/43 "2004-07-15T16:07:35Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > As I said in my original message, there is a passage in the book where 3 hobbits get off the road and hide behind a tree, and is the obvious inspiration for this scene, but isnā€™t as similar as the two film scenes are to each other. Iā€™m at work now, but will look this up when I get home. What chapter is that in? A Shortcut to Mushrooms? Iā€™ll read it tonight to see how far off I am. But I have a distinct memory of watching RB the first time and thinking ā€œYep, thatā€™s how it happened.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/44 "2004-07-15T16:15:11Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What chapter is that in? A Shortcut to Mushrooms? Iā€™ll read it tonight to see how far off I am. But I have a distinct memory of watching RB the first time and thinking ā€œYep, thatā€™s how it happened.ā€ Iā€™m not certain of the chapter, but itā€™s well before they get to Buckland and meet up with Merry, and not too long after they leave Bag End. I think itā€™s just before they encounter the elves; I may be misremembering, but I believe that the arrival of the elves drives the Black Rider away. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/45 "2004-07-15T16:23:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Thatā€™s nothing. Get a load of [THIS](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=1354&orderby=titleA). > > šŸ˜ƒ ā€œGondor has no pants! Gondor needs no pants!ā€ is _still_ the greatest ā€œquoteā€ from that movie! > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or, for that matter, [this](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=1356&orderby=titleA). From that page: > [@](#): > > Frodo will kill him if he tries anything. šŸ˜‰ Heh heh. Someone knows their ā€œBotRā€. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/46 "2004-07-15T16:26:37Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Personally, Iā€™d pit Bakshiā€™s Galadrial against Cate Blanchett any day. She certainly is [hotter](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&gid=83&pid=1350&orderby=titleA) (no offense, Catey). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/47 "2004-07-15T16:43:51Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > She certainly is [hotter](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&gid=83&pid=1350&orderby=titleA) (no offense, Catey). Absolutely hotter. In a Marsha Brady sort of way. On quick comment about the Rankin/Bass version of RotK ā€“ I can understand wanting to make the Nazgul cute and fluffy, but did they have to make them cuddly as well? And what was up with Denethorā€™s mutton chops? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/48 "2004-07-15T17:43:31Z")
Hey, the Rankin-Bass _Hobbit_ actually wasnā€™t pathetically bad. It was a disappointment, sure, for anyone who had read the books, but when the worst you can say about a movie is ā€œIt wasnā€™t as good as the bookā€, thatā€™s not too shabby (especially when the book is _The Hobbit_). But for the Bakshi movie, the one truly unforgiveable sin, in my opinion, is making Sam into a drooling asylum escapee with an IQ of 6 (and yes, Iā€™m sure that itā€™s Bakshi to blame for that one, not Rankin/Bass). Yes, his name means ā€œhalfwitā€, and yes, he himself says that his brain is not the best part of him. But heā€™s too modest. Remember, he alone of the Fellowship figures out where Frodo is going, on the shore of the Great River. Heā€™s the one who managed to eavesdrop on Frodo and Gandalf, and figure out the pieces left out. Heā€™s the one who manages to bluff a tower full of Orcs into thinking heā€™s a great mighty Elf-hero. I can forgive a Balrog wearing fluffy bunny slippers. I can forgive a half-naked Viking Boromir. I can forgive the budget troubles that made him plan for only two movies, and only finish one of them. But I canā€™t forgive what he did to Sam. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/49 "2004-07-15T17:58:48Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > It was Rankin-Bass. Now you know :). Posted at 12:28 (PDT) I hate my slow-ass computer and its slow-ass dial-up internet connection. I swear, the first thing I do when I win the lottery is bring my family and all of our possessions into the twenty-first century. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/50 "2004-07-15T18:55:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Actually, **Guin** , you will. Because one of the things that the SDMB is all about is being a place where EVERY STINKING BIT of knowledge that has ever lodged in your brain will be useful to someone. I have a sudden, chilling image of a hive mind. A (mostly) friendly hive mind, but a hive mind nonetheless. DD ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/51 "2004-07-15T19:17:52Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Speaking of Rankin-Bassā€¦how do THEY feel about Jacksonā€™s version of _Return of the King_? Do they feel slighted like Bakshi, or are they too embarassed to admit their film even exists? What I want to know isā€¦how does [Leonard Nimoy](http://homepage.mac.com/evanbaumgardner/iMovieTheater6.html) feel about it? I feel that his adaptation was the most faithful to Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/52 "2004-07-15T19:37:07Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > What I want to know isā€¦how does [Leonard Nimoy](http://homepage.mac.com/evanbaumgardner/iMovieTheater6.html) feel about it? I feel that his adaptation was the most faithful to Tolkien. THE PAIN! _Curls up in a fetal position_ Thatā€™s worse then almost everything Shatner ever did. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/53 "2004-07-15T19:40:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But for the Bakshi movie, the one truly unforgiveable sin, in my opinion, is making Sam into a drooling asylum escapee with an IQ of 6. Once again, I must disagree. I thought it was a fun characterization, and rather endearing. So much so that I was pretty disappointed with Sean Astin. Besides, the Bakshi Sam looks a little like my niece. How can you hate that? ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/54 "2004-07-15T20:03:15Z")
Alrighty! Iā€™m home now and have FOTR open before me, and the Baskii DVD playing. (and if this isnā€™t total geek immersion, I donā€™t know what is!) Now that I look at it, I see there are actually two scenes in the book that are conflated to inspire the scene as it appears in both films. Both are in ā€œThree is Company,ā€ a few pages apart. The first is a few paragraphs after Frodo recites ā€œThe Road goes ever on and onā€¦ā€ He, Sam, and Pippin are walking along the road in the woods, when they hear a horse approaching; it could be Gandalfā€“or maybe not. At Frodoā€™s advice, they get off the road; Sam and Pippin ā€œran quickly to the left and down into a little hollow not far from the road.ā€ Frodo lingers `til the sound of the hooves gets closer, then ā€œthrew himself down in a patch of long grass behind a tree that overshadowed the road Then he lifted his head and peered cautiously above one of the tree roots.ā€ When the Rider comes up, he pauses on the road above Frodo and sniffles, but does not get off his horse. Frodo feels a desire to take the Ring out of his pocket, but doesnā€™t. And then the Rider passes on. A few pages later, after the hobbits have gone on awhile and itā€™s now night, they hear footsteps again. (You can find this just after the long song that starts ā€œUpon the hearth the fire is redā€¦ā€ ). This time, Sam and Pippin crouch behind a ā€œlarge tree boleā€ (bole = trunk, not roots) and Frodo ā€œcrept a few yards back toward the lane.ā€ The Rider arrives leading his horse, and gets down to sniff along the road; as the Rider gets close to him, Frodo feels an even stronger desire to put the Ring on, but just as he reaches for his pocket, the Elves show up and the Rider retreats. So, I can see the elements of the scene as it plays in both films: Frodo peeking out from the tree roots with the Rider above him, for example, and the Rider later crouching down on the road. But there is no point where all 3 hobbits hide under a tree root together as they do in both movies (and never mind the filmsā€™ addition of Merry, since both versions change how the hobbits start out anyway). Unless there is some illustration that inspired both, Iā€™m going to stick with my original contention that Jacksonā€™s scene is an homage to Bashkiā€™s. As for the ending of Bashkiā€™s film, Gandalf throws his sword in the air, and the narrator proclaims: ā€œThe forces of darkness were driven forever from the face of Middle-earth by the valiant friends of Frodo. As their gallant battle ended, so too ends the first great tale of The Lord of the Rings.ā€ Which does suggest a sequel, although one has to wonder how important Frodoā€™s quest is now that ā€œthe forces of darkness were driven forever from the face of Middle-earth.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/55 "2004-07-15T20:55:31Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > She certainly is [hotter](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&gid=83&pid=1350&orderby=titleA) (no offense, Catey). Itā€™s Jessica Rabbit, in her first major motion picture role! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/56 "2004-07-15T22:11:20Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Iā€™m almost certain Iā€™ve seen this image as an illustration. Does this ring a bell with anyone or am I imagining things? I was very familar with this scene, but I only saw the Bakshi version once around 20 years ago. So, the question would be, does the illustration pre-date the Bakshi version? I too have seen the illustration/painting you remember. Jackson was quite open about his sets and photography being inspired by the numerous Tolkien-drawers that have been around over the years. I cannot say if Bakshi admits the same thing. I recall seeing the painting and thinking ā€œWow! Just like the movie!ā€ then I realized that the painting pre-dated the Bakshi-nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/57 "2004-07-15T22:13:05Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > She certainly is [hotter](http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&gid=83&pid=1350&orderby=titleA) (no offense, Catey). Hmmm, too much Colloidial Silver was consumed by Galadriel it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f04885/32.png) [@Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninja_Pizza_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/58 "2004-07-16T00:42:12Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > But no matter how educated ones opinions are, we will never, **ever** live to see a consensus on who would win in a fight between the Enterprise and a Star Destroyer. Easy. The makers of on-line storage media, needed to store umpty-zillion ā€œis too!ā€-ā€œis not!ā€ posts are the hands-down winners. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/59 "2004-07-16T00:50:53Z")
I also have to say that I liked Bakshiā€™s conception of Hobbits much better, though Jackson was constrained by the use of live actors, so his hands were somewhat tied. And Bakshi did a far better job with Gimli. But his orcs were pretty lame, as was his Grima. Brad Dourif was stellar in that role. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999/60 "2004-07-16T01:22:41Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And Bakshi did a far better job with Gimli. Except that he made him about six feet tall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-ralph-bakshi-think-of-the-recent-lotr-trilogy/254999.md?page=4)