# What does the Bible say about abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2019, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043 "2019-05-16T10:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/61 "2019-05-18T17:21:07Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Or it could be the delusional folks who believe that souls are an actual thing that the government should be concerning itself with. > > Or a thing. The weird thing is that you asked any of these same people if an abortion destroyed the soul, they’d tell you no. The soul just passes on to an afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/62 "2019-05-18T22:23:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Then what does this have to do with the topic of the thread? The question was whether people performed abortions and I was producing the evidence that showed they did. The question of whether these procedures were surgical or non-surgical has no relevance to what the rest of us were discussing. It does, indeed. Thing is, the ancients didnt really discuss abortion much as there wasnt anything we today know as abortion. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/63 "2019-05-18T23:20:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It does, indeed. Thing is, the ancients didnt really discuss abortion much as there wasnt anything we today know as abortion. Uh, it was in the Hippocratic oath! Of course they discussed it. Abortion means “killing an uncompleted pregnancy”, it doesn’t mean, “sticking surgical implements into a uterus”. Heck, we do the latter for “cleaning up” after a miscarriage and for lots of other non-abortion reasons. Not quite in Biblical times, but well before modern sterile medicine, I even read a court case of a man who illegally had a late-term abortion performed on his slave. He had gotten her pregnant, and if she bore his child, he would not be allowed to sell her (under the local laws.) Had he arranged for the abortion early in the pregnancy, it would have been legal, but because it was late, it was illegal. I wish I could find the reference – I read about it in a review of a book about medieval Islamic law and how the law treated women. Anyway – there was no mention of the slave having died, and since his goal was to profit from selling her, he wouldn’t have had particular reason to attempt it if the outcome were 99% her death. The article didn’t mention the method of abortion, but I assume it was a chemical abortion, killing the fetus to induce a still-birth. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/64 "2019-05-18T23:25:04Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The anti-aborts I’ve talked to say that abortion wasn’t mentioned in the Bible because the idea of destroying an unborn child was so abhorrent that nobody would even think of writing or talking about it. It would never occur to them to say it shouldn’t be done because everyone knew it should be done. Funny you say this because the Bible says that the concept of sacrificing infants ‘never came to mind’ - and that is God Himself talking, in Jeremiah 7:30-34, so I can see how abortion slipped under God’s radar also. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/65 "2019-05-19T01:18:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It does, indeed. Thing is, the ancients didnt really discuss abortion much as there wasnt anything we today know as abortion. Except that I’ve already disproved that above. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/66 "2019-05-19T02:24:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It does, indeed. Thing is, the ancients didnt really discuss abortion much as there wasnt anything we today know as abortion. Tell you what. Go to a pro-life rally and try to convince anyone there that taking a dose of RU-486 doesn’t count as an abortion. They’ll disagree with you. So will Planned Parenthood and medical professionals. They’ll tell you this a medication abortion. If that’s too much effort, you can look it up on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone). ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/67 "2019-05-19T03:57:53Z")
Why should it matter what the bible says? Not everyone is a Christian, many believe in other religions or are atheists. So if you are a Christian politician and oppose abortion, then you are imposing your religious views on others. And isn’t there supposed to be a division of church and state? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/68 "2019-05-19T04:12:31Z")
> [@bb49](#): > > Why should it matter what the bible says? Not everyone is a Christian, many believe in other religions or are atheists. So if you are a Christian politician and oppose abortion, then you are imposing your religious views on others. > And isn’t there supposed to be a division of church and state? A lot of people want to make the world a better place. The problem is we don’t all agree on what a better place is. I’ll credit most pro-life people with sincerity. I feel they really do believe their cause is just. They’re trying to make America a better place by stopping something they see as profoundly wrong. And they believe it’s wrong for anybody to have an abortion, regardless of what their religion is. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/69 "2019-05-19T04:39:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Thing is with abortion, something dies. I know the joy of my wife being pregnant and then her having a miscarriage. I know something died and it hurt us deeply. I hope I can see that child in heaven. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > What died in your wife’s miscarriage was more than just a clump of cells, it was your idea of your child and all your hopes and dreams of what that child could have become. I’m sorry. > > But not everyone has that or wants that. **Urbanredneck** , I am sorry for your loss. I too believe life begins at conception, but I do not believe I have a right to tell others what to do with their bodies, or whatever it may contain. I am sure that if you want to you will be able to meet the soul that would have been your child, and that you will be able to know each other. **Ann** , I think you were wrong to belittle the cherished hope of a fellow Doper. He was simply talking about something that caused him pain, and it sounded to me as if you added to it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/70 "2019-05-19T12:05:27Z")
Here is the verses I was looking for which shows that this person God is making is in the ‘depths of the earth’ when in the womb: > [@Psalm 139:13-16](#): > > For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, **intricately woven in the depths of the earth**. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Thus uterus =/= womb. The ‘child’s soul’ is not in the ‘uterus’, but does exist in this ‘womb’ which is in the depths of the earth. The womb biblically seems distinctly different then our understanding of uterus, though there is a connection. Also God makes the person in a secret location, the uterus is not secret we know were that is, we can see when one is pregnant after she starts to show, and we have even examples for scriptures of women being ripped open. Not a secret location. —A bit out there past this line but hey— If one wants to add reincarnation to this (which can be done biblically though John the Baptist who was Elijah), and the curses on Adam and Eve, you have the man must die and return to the dust of the earth, then women will bear children, taking that from the dust of the earth to life. This was the womb would be a gateway back to the land of the living. Either way abortion would not be murder as it is just the closing of the doorway. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/71 "2019-05-19T13:16:45Z")
This is also why i like to ask, “when is the fetus ensouled”? Secular people can read it as metaphors, religious people can read it literally. But I feel that’s the point when abortion is “killing a person”, rather than “killing something with the potential to become a person”. And I agree with kanicbird that the Bible generally assumes the fetus is ensouled quite a while after conception, probably when the newborn draws its first breath. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/72 "2019-05-19T14:39:29Z")
The Bible was written by men. They knew about abortion but very peripherally. Since men are pretty blind when it comes to the goings-on of women’s bodies, it’s probable they were only attuned to the tip of the abortion iceberg. If you were carrying an unwanted pregnancy in the biblical age, who were you going to tell if you planned to get rid of it? Just as it now and in the near-past, you’d seek help from other women, maybe using coded euphemisms to explain your ailment and what you needed. All of this would be happening while the menfolk would be off doing other things, oblivious. [Abortifacients have a long history of use around the world](https://jezebel.com/the-history-of-abortifacients-1658993381). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/73 "2019-05-19T16:18:30Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > What died in your wife’s miscarriage was more than just a clump of cells, it was your idea of your child and all your hopes and dreams of what that child could have become. I’m sorry. > > But not everyone has that or wants that. > [@Baker](#): > > **Ann** , I think you were wrong to belittle the cherished hope of a fellow Doper. He was simply talking about something that caused him pain, and it sounded to me as if you added to it. How is “your idea of your child and all your hopes and dreams of what that child could have become. I’m sorry” belittling? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/74 "2019-05-19T16:33:44Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The Bible was written by men. They knew about abortion but very peripherally. Since men are pretty blind when it comes to the goings-on of women’s bodies, it’s probable they were only attuned to the tip of the abortion iceberg. > > If you were carrying an unwanted pregnancy in the biblical age, who were you going to tell if you planned to get rid of it? Just as it now and in the near-past, you’d seek help from other women, maybe using coded euphemisms to explain your ailment and what you needed. All of this would be happening while the menfolk would be off doing other things, oblivious. > > [Abortifacients have a long history of use around the world](https://jezebel.com/the-history-of-abortifacients-1658993381). It is true that the Bible is base on a patriarchal faith and thus slanted from the male perspective, It would be interesting what matriarchal religions say on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/75 "2019-05-19T16:58:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > … > > And I agree with kanicbird that the Bible generally assumes the fetus is ensouled quite a while after conception, probably when the newborn draws its first breath. It also would explain why the Bible is silent when it comes to God’s view on abortion in terms of morality. After all God is pretty specific about bad stuff we should not do. And God arguable mentions abortion as discussed here, but does also mention causing a miscarriage. God perhaps never gave us that ability to murder ‘someone’ in the womb. Also to add another verse, ‘a curse without cause will not alight’ . If we take the fetus as innocent, then the curse of death (as death is a curse), can not take hold of it. But for this I would rather use the term ‘child soul’ then ‘fetus’, because the body can be destroyed. Then one would have to go into original sin and when that starts, which if it does exist, may be when the ‘child soul’ enters this world. Wouldn’t that be a big kick in the head, all this fighting over something that we have no say at all on. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/76 "2019-05-19T17:58:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll credit most pro-life people with sincerity. I feel they really do believe their cause is just. They’re trying to make America a better place by stopping something they see as profoundly wrong. And they believe it’s wrong for anybody to have an abortion, regardless of what their religion is. Except the ones who tell their mistresses and wives to have abortions and then declare that their god has forgiven them. Which is vile hypocrisy in believing that their god will forgive them this transgression while not forgiving anyone else the same. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/77 "2019-05-19T18:02:14Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Except the ones who tell their mistresses and wives to have abortions and then declare that their god has forgiven them. > > Which is vile hypocrisy in believing that their god will forgive them this transgression while not forgiving anyone else the same. Or abortion is always a bad idea unless and until you need one. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/78 "2019-05-19T18:02:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [Abortifacients have a long history of use around the world](https://jezebel.com/the-history-of-abortifacients-1658993381). From that article: “Most early medieval laws adopted the Roman position on pregnancy and early abortion. According to the Catholic Church, life began at “ensoulment,” which just so happened to coincide with quickening.” Quickening being the first movements of the fetus in the womb at 4-5 months. This was the same definition the ancient Semitics (Assyria/Akkad/Canaanites) used. Before this, the fetus was not considered ‘alive’. ‘At Conception’ is only a recent change, and a rather extremist one at that. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/79 "2019-05-19T18:29:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > … > > ‘At Conception’ is only a recent change, and a rather extremist one at that. Not really, once we figured out what conception was, it is a natural and sensible starting point. It is at that point ‘a new creation’ . ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043/80 "2019-05-19T19:47:25Z")
The Sin of Onan, genesis 38:9-19, refers to birth control. It’s obviously closely related to abortion. Either way the birth of a child isn’t left to God. FWIW I support the use of birth control and abortion in certain situations. > **[Onan | Biblical account](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan#Biblical_account)** > > New International Version > 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.” > 9 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. > 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion/834043.md?page=5)