# What does the P.P. stand for in a Papal signature? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327 "2005-04-27T05:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/1 "2005-04-27T05:48:52Z")
John Paul P.P. II Benedict P.P. XVI So what’s the PP stand for? My BF and I were going over and over on this one, and we couldn’t think of anything. Primus Pontifex? Peter and Paul? I beseach thee, teeming millions! Help ease my distress and reveal the truth! ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/2 "2005-04-27T06:21:52Z")
“Papa Pontifex” ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/3 "2005-04-27T07:00:14Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > “Papa Pontifex” We all know he’s got the Bling. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/4 "2005-04-27T15:13:33Z")
As I understand it, JPII added P.P. to his papal signature without telling anyone what it stood for. Most folks guess that it stands for “papa”. Though I could certainly be wrong, I don’t think that it stands for “pontifex”, as that word appears in the more standard abbreviation “PM”, for “Pontifex Maximus”. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/5 "2005-04-27T16:08:55Z")
The PP was definitely part of the papal signature before Wojtyla (Cite: [This](http://archives.catholic.org.hk/documents/paper2/pius-pp-ix_mod.jpg) picture of a document signed by Pius IX., 1846-1878, where the abbreviation appears). I assume it simply stands for “papa,” the vowels having been omitted. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/6 "2005-04-27T16:27:29Z")
Notice also that in the Pio Nono document, it reads: “Pius PP. IX.” and **not** “Pius P.P. IX.” strongly suggesting it’s not an abbreviation of two separate words. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/7 "2005-04-27T17:40:18Z")
I’m not sure if this is the source of the PP. abbreviation, but the pope is sometimes called “Pastor Pastorum” (Latin for “shepherd of shepherds”). I believe this phrase derives from the writings of Augustine, but I haven’t been able to find a citation. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/8 "2005-04-27T20:29:02Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > I’m not sure if this is the source of the PP. abbreviation, but the pope is sometimes called “Pastor Pastorum” (Latin for “shepherd of shepherds”). I believe this phrase derives from the writings of Augustine, but I haven’t been able to find a citation. That sounds like the likely scenario. Father Carl Pulvermacher answered this question in 1982:[ > [@](#): > > ]([http://www.sspx.ca/Angelus/1982\_April/Ask\_Me.htm](http://www.sspx.ca/Angelus/1982_April/Ask_Me.htm))_Q. When the Popes sign their names they end with two pp’s—like Pius Duodecimus p. p., or Joannis Paulus II p.p. Also, why does a bishop, when signing his name, precede it with a small cross? B. B., San Jose, CA._ > > A. After studying the first question I cannot come to any definite conclusion. The Pope carries many titles with his unique office. He is a Father, a Teacher and a Judge. He is lovingly called “Papa” by his Italian children, meaning “Father.” His other titles are Sovereign Pontiff, Holy Father, His Holiness, Servant of the Servants of God, Pastor of Pastors, Bishop of Rome, Pastor Aeternus, Patriarch of the Western Church. Very likely the “p.p.” signifies “Pastor Pastorum” which means “Shepherd of Shepherds.” > > As for the second question, the cross before the Bishop’s signature. This, I’ve been told, dates back to the times when Bishops were illiterate or old and feeble, and unable to write their names. They would sign documents by making an “X” or a cross. It is also possible that the small cross is what remains of the mark of the signet ring that Bishops formerly used to stamp their papers before signing their names. This question and answer would probably win a prize in a trivia contest! ---
**Author:** ![MWPapabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@MWPapabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MWPapabear)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/9 "2010-12-16T17:04:01Z")
Abbreviation for “Papa”; derived from the Greek for ‘father’ ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/10 "2010-12-16T18:25:21Z")
I misread the title, thought it was talking about PAYpal signatures - dunno if the Pope has a paypal account Brian ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/11 "2010-12-16T18:33:28Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Though I could certainly be wrong, I don’t think that it stands for “pontifex”, as that word appears in the more standard abbreviation “PM”, for “Pontifex Maximus”. …which means “Greatest Bridgebulder”. I always liked that one. Makes me think of Romans building aqueducts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/12 "2010-12-17T01:24:47Z")
A somewhat related thread from a year ago: [“The Tudors” and signatures of historical personages](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=514606&highlight=papal), where it turned out “The Tudors” miniseries incorrectly showed Pope Paul III signing a document as “Paul III” (as I pointed out, he really would have signed his name as “Paulus PP III”). ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/13 "2010-12-17T01:48:12Z")
I swear to frog this said “Paypal signature.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/14 "2010-12-17T13:54:41Z")
Prime Pederast ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/15 "2010-12-17T17:31:03Z")
Protector of Pedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/16 "2010-12-17T17:50:35Z")
Pontius Pilate? ---
**Author:** ![gaggymott134](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@gaggymott134](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaggymott134)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/17 "2011-05-11T22:42:13Z")
P.P. as post-nominal letters after the Papal signature means ‘PONTIFEX PRIMUS.’ This translates into English as ‘The first bridge-builder.’ It is one of the many titles the Pope can claim: Some others include… 1. Bishop of Rome 2) Successor of the Prince of Apostles 3) Vicar of Jesus Christ 2. Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church 5) Patriarch of the West 3. Primate of Italy 7) Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province and 4. Sovereign of the State of Vatican City. Unofficially, he is often called… 1. Rector of the World, upon Earth 2) Father of Princes and Kings and ‘Pontifex Maximus’ (The great bridge-builder), usually shortened to Pont. Max. If I were Pope, my choice would simply be…‘Holy Father!’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/18 "2011-05-11T23:00:21Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > “Papa Pontifex” Correct. Which is what the Vatican opted to switch to when “Who’s your daddy ?” was deemed too informal. Seriously though, it does mean Papa Pontifex, “First among the Bridge Builders” or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/19 "2011-05-12T06:08:59Z")
What is apparently the [earliest](http://www.catacombe.roma.it/en/sangaio.html) use of ‘PP’ to refer to the pope seems to simply be an abbreviation of ‘papa’, though it could have meant something else. Likely not a Roman-derived title, though, since this is from the Third Century. That doesn’t mean that’s the undisputed origin of its modern usage. Possibly it got re-used and different meanings have been attached over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-p-p-stand-for-in-a-papal-signature/301327/20 "2011-05-12T06:20:26Z")
> [@gaggymott134](#): > > Rector of the World, upon Earth Not _quite_ the word I’d use. So, is this thread about to be excommunicated and get its fingers chopped off?