# What does the U.S. get out of its alliance with Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071 "2011-09-29T21:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/1 "2011-09-29T21:49:11Z")
It’s supposed to be of some value to have at least one pro-Western democracy in the MENA, and I suppose it is. But I cannot think of any particular instance or manner in which our alliance with/patronage of Israel has been of any strategic or economic advantage to the U.S. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/2 "2011-09-29T23:44:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s supposed to be of some value to have at least one pro-Western democracy in the MENA, and I suppose it is. But I cannot think of any particular instance or manner in which our alliance with/patronage of Israel has been of any strategic or economic advantage to the U.S. Can you? We support a friendly country, that is the only free country in the Middle East, doing so is its own reward. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/3 "2011-09-29T23:46:34Z")
We sell them weapons and military equipment, do joint military exercises, they bomb people we don’t like, and they redirect Arab anger away from us. Haven’t you ever heard Israel described as another U.S. aircraft carrier? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/4 "2011-09-29T23:57:50Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > We support a friendly country, that is the only free country in the Middle East, doing so is its own reward. hahahahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/5 "2011-09-30T00:05:10Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > We sell them weapons and military equipment, do joint military exercises, they bomb people we don’t like, and they redirect Arab anger away from us. Haven’t you ever heard Israel described as another U.S. aircraft carrier? Airstrip what? Five? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/6 "2011-09-30T00:16:56Z")
It keeps our politicians happy. Israel has a very effective lobby in the US. They don’t have the most money in our politics but they are very effective at using what they got to manipulate elections. Then not only is their money being used to fund campaigns every arms manufacturer benefits from our relationship with Israel so they are more then happy to pay elected officials to be pro-Israel too. What it comes down too is no one is really funding politicians to hold anti-Israel positions. The people that might want the US to be anti-Israel aren’t exactly willing to give money to people in the US. If they got over their any friend of Israel is an enemy of ours attitude they could probably change our policy but if they were willing to change they’d might also be willing to accept wiping Israel off the planet probably isn’t a good short term goal. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/7 "2011-09-30T00:17:52Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > It keeps our politicians happy. > > Israel has a very effective lobby in the US. They don’t have the most money in our politics but they are very effective at using what they got to manipulate elections. Then not only is their money being used to fund campaigns every arms manufacturer benefits from our relationship with Israel so they are more then happy to pay elected officials to be pro-Israel too. > > What it comes down too is no one is really funding politicians to hold anti-Israel positions. The people that might want the US to be anti-Israel aren’t exactly willing to give money to people in the US. If they got over their any friend of Israel is an enemy of ours attitude they could probably change our policy but if they were willing to change they’d might also be willing to accept wiping Israel off the planet probably isn’t a good short term goal. Have you been reading by any chance _Protocals of the Elders of Zion_? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/8 "2011-09-30T01:17:51Z")
Israel can do things that the US cannot. The bombing of Saddams nuclear plants in the 80s were opposed by the US at the time, but in retrospect wasn’t so bad. Israel may end up bombing Irans underground centrifuges this time around. Israel (and supposedly the US) worked together on the Stuxnet virus to infect Iranian nuclear facilities. Then again, how much of the anti-US sentiment in the middle east is because we align with Israel. Plus there is the philosophical alignment. We don’t really benefit from that, but we have more in common with Israel than with Jordan or Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/9 "2011-09-30T01:22:26Z")
Colour me naive, but Israel is a free and democratic country. The USA has no problems befriending any free and democratic country. Canada supports Israel for exactly the same reasons. I don’t imagine we’d feel animosity for any free and democratic country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/10 "2011-09-30T01:24:19Z")
Free yarmulkes. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/11 "2011-09-30T01:27:37Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > We sell them weapons and military equipment, do joint military exercises, they bomb people we don’t like, and they redirect Arab anger away from us. Haven’t you ever heard Israel described as another U.S. aircraft carrier? Would the Arabs really have much to be angry at the US about if it wasn’t for their support of Israel? > [@boytyperanma](#): > > It keeps our politicians happy. > > … > > The people that might want the US to be anti-Israel aren’t exactly willing to give money to people in the US. > > … Plenty of Saudi money in American politics, I think, but your main point is well taken, it has more to do with US domestic politics than US international interests. **Qin** , don’t Godwinize the thread, huh? > [@Leaffan](#): > > Colour me naive, , but Israel is a free and democratic country. … So colored. Free and democratic in the way that South Africa used to be. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/12 "2011-09-30T01:39:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Have you been reading by any chance _Protocals of the Elders of Zion_? That’s some pretty lameass strawmanning. And the lashings of kneejerking don’t save the dish. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/13 "2011-09-30T01:41:39Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > **Qin** , don’t Godwinize the thread, huh? Must . . . resist . . . nitpick . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/14 "2011-09-30T01:43:25Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Colour me naive, but Israel is a free and democratic country. The USA has no problems befriending any free and democratic country. > > Canada supports Israel for exactly the same reasons. I don’t imagine we’d feel animosity for any free and democratic country in the world. Yes, yes. But what needs explaining is not why that U.S. is on friendly terms with Israel, but why we give it active support in so many expensive ways. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/15 "2011-09-30T01:46:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s supposed to be of some value to have at least one pro-Western democracy in the MENA, and I suppose it is. But I cannot think of any particular instance or manner in which our alliance with/patronage of Israel has been of any strategic or economic advantage to the U.S. Can you? I posted this before - here is some stuff that was invented/created in Israel that is used extensively in US and other countries: Drip irrigation Unmanned Aerial Vehicles Flash drives ICQ and later AOL IM The medical stent technology Voice Mail technology Computer Firewall technology Data Compression Algorithms that you use every day Cherry Tomatoes Solar Water Heaters Windows NT Operating System Intel 8088, Pentium MMX, Pentium 4 and Centrino chips Beta-interferon VoIP ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/16 "2011-09-30T01:46:40Z")
So, there’s a free and democratic country located in the middle of a group of dictatorial countries that happen to control a huge chunk of the world’s oil supply and it remains a mystery why we’re supportive of them. I see. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/17 "2011-09-30T01:47:59Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Would the Arabs really have much to be angry at the US about if it wasn’t for their support of Israel? They’d still have their postcolonial resentment of the West in general, I suppose. And the U.S./West still would have found other reasons (Cold War politics, oil politics) to intervene/meddle in the MENA here and there now and then, and that too would be resented. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/18 "2011-09-30T01:51:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > So, there’s a free and democratic country located in the middle of a group of dictatorial countries that happen to control a huge chunk of the world’s oil supply and it remains a mystery why we’re supportive of them. > > I see. The question is, specifically, **what we get out of it.** Strategically or economically. So far the only thing I’ve seen suggested is that, sometimes, Israel will bomb targets the U.S. would like bombed but would rather not bomb itself. But, that’s rather a pre-9/11 reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/19 "2011-09-30T02:05:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **What does the U.S. get out of its alliance with Israel?** What alliance? You could ask what the US gets out of its friendship with Israel, but there is no alliance between the US and Israel. It always makes me cringe to hear Israel described as our only ally in the Middle East. We are not allies; neither side is pledged to come to the defense of the other in the event of foreign attack or invasion. If Syria was to invade Israel, the US won’t come to Israel’s defense just as it didn’t in 1967 or 1973. If Syria were to invade Turkey, the US is pledged to come to its defense as a member of NATO. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071/20 "2011-09-30T02:05:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The question is, specifically, **what we get out of it.** Strategically or economically. So far the only thing I’ve seen suggested is that, sometimes, Israel will bomb targets the U.S. would like bombed but would rather not bomb itself. But, that’s rather a pre-9/11 reason. I pointed out the “economically” part in my post. If you would like other intangibles in the past: Destroying the reactor in Iraq Destroying the reactor in Syria Mig-23 technology from the defector’s plane SAM Soviet technology from the batteries captured in Sinai Sharing of all captured Soviet/Russian technology and testing US versus Soviet/Russian weaponry in general Sharing intelligence on Middle East [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-u-s-get-out-of-its-alliance-with-israel/598071.md?page=2)