# what does the word 'liberal' really mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054 "2012-12-24T21:11:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wildorchid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@wildorchid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wildorchid)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/1 "2012-12-24T21:11:23Z")
What does the word ‘liberal’ really mean? …not necessarily in a political context… who is a real liberal? how would you describe a true liberal? who are some historical examples of true liberals? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/2 "2012-12-24T21:26:02Z")
You’re assuming that there is such a thing as a single, universally accepted, unchanging definition of a word. There isn’t. Language doesn’t work that way. You’ll just have to ask someone who uses the word what they mean by it whenever you meet someone new who uses the word “liberal.” ---
**Author:** ![wildorchid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@wildorchid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wildorchid)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/3 "2012-12-24T21:34:50Z")
fair enough… all words are opinions, in a way, and have equivocal meanings… but if taken to an extreme, the same credo would have us using proper names only for everything. you wouldn’t say ‘my cup of coffee’, you would simply say ‘Susan’, and no one would have any idea what you are talking about. So, the question better phrased might be: \*\*\*what are some things/ qualities/ ideas that might be described as liberal? * * * what are the origins of the word? how is it used in politican conversation? what is ‘progressive’? is that different? how do the ‘liberal arts’ fit in? what are people saying about themselves when they describe themselves with the word ‘liberal’? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/4 "2012-12-24T21:35:17Z")
Moved to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/5 "2012-12-24T21:42:41Z")
If all you’re interested in is learning about the various political philosophies that are described as “liberal,” you’d do better to click on each of the entries linked to in this Wikipedia entry: > **[Liberal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal)** > > Liberal or liberalism may refer to: Or you could read this entry in Wiktionary: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/liberal](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/liberal) If you instead want a debate about which kind of liberalism is best, that’s a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/6 "2012-12-24T21:45:43Z")
> [@wildorchid](#): > > …not necessarily in a political context… In a non-political context, “liberal” means “generous”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/7 "2012-12-25T02:22:35Z")
> [@wildorchid](#): > > What does the word ‘liberal’ really mean? It is a currently inactive poster to this message board, (although he capitalized his username). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/8 "2012-12-25T02:41:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It is a currently inactive poster to this message board, (although he capitalized his username). And always claimed the word for the Libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/9 "2012-12-25T16:21:47Z")
The word ‘liberal’ has been demonized somewhat here in he US by certain radio and TV talking heads. That makes defining a little difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/10 "2012-12-25T20:35:11Z")
“Liberal” is often used by a conservative to describe someone who expresses an opinion about _anything_ that is different from their own. When used in this manner, it is meaningless in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/11 "2012-12-25T20:39:32Z")
Many people treat politics as if it were a football game between two rival teams. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/12 "2012-12-25T20:41:52Z")
A “centrist”, “business-friendly” Clintonista \*menshivik \* wishy washy wussy who’s essential political gesture is a shrug. A radical minus guts. _Feh!_ But they’ve got money, and without them the situation goes from grim to utterly hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![wildorchid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@wildorchid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wildorchid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/13 "2012-12-25T20:52:49Z")
John of Salisbury writing about the ‘liberal arts’ in his ‘Metalogicon’ in the 1100s. see book 1 chapter 12… [http://en.calameo.com/read/000107044639e185b433](http://en.calameo.com/read/000107044639e185b433) [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed\_in\_frame=0&search=liberal&searchmode=none](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=liberal&searchmode=none) [http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What\_is\_the\_English\_translation\_for\_Latin\_liber](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_English_translation_for_Latin_liber) I think it’s ironic that the first 3 liberal arts are grammar, logic, and rhetoric, and yet a self-described ‘liberal’ today shrinks from logic, and the presentation of facts, and of open fair debate. the word comes from the latin _liber_, which means ‘book’. in ancient Rome, if a slave has freed, he was not just allowed to learn to read and write, but was required to do so. the idea was that being free meant having to participate in public forums, and reading and writing was part and parcel to that. I just think it’s funny that todays liberals are really anything but ‘liberal’ in the true meaning of the word. They can’t, or won’t use logic for the most part. they say things like ‘i don’t beleive in science’; facts just confuse and anger them… ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/14 "2012-12-25T21:53:45Z")
Those are some silly generalizations you’re making there, **wildorchid**. Would you mind identifying specifically who you are talking about? Anyway, Mao Zedong does a fine job defining the word in his pamphlet, “[Combat Liberalism](http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm)” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/15 "2012-12-25T23:45:01Z")
> [@wildorchid](#): > > I just think it’s funny that todays liberals are really anything but ‘liberal’ in the true meaning of the word. They can’t, or won’t use logic for the most part. they say things like ‘i don’t beleive in science’; facts just confuse and anger them… Well, as an example of really bad logic, I would note that it is not “liberals,”\* but “conservatives,”\* who have expressed the least belief in science in the last few years. Anthropogenic Global Warming being the most obvious case, but the scientific notion of Evolution and a number of other examples of science can be found. Ascribing one’s own error to one’s opponents is certainly a failure of logic. - I tend to avoid using liberal and conservative in discussions of the U.S. political environment in the early 21st century on the grounds that there are too many positions among the parties on both sides of the political divide that have nothing to do with political philosophy and everything to do with pandering to some perceived demographic. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/16 "2012-12-26T01:07:59Z")
> [@wildorchid](#): > > the word comes from the latin _liber_, which means ‘book’. Actually, _liber_, the source for library, means book. The origin of liberal is _līber_, which means free. The words in Latin are different with different meanings. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/17 "2012-12-26T02:12:20Z")
> [@wildorchid](#): > > John of Salisbury writing about the ‘liberal arts’ in his ‘Metalogicon’ in the 1100s. > > the word comes from the latin _liber_, which means ‘book’. [No, it doesn’t.](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=liberal&allowed_in_frame=0) It comes from _liber_ meaning “free.” Many words in any language will have multiple and unrelated meanings, I suppose. Liber was also the name of a Roman wine-god (he had a consort named Libera). > [@](#): > > beral (adj.) mid-14c., “generous,” also, late 14c., “selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant,” and, early 15c., in a bad sense “extravagant, unrestrained,” from Old French liberal “befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous” (12c.), from Latin liberalis “noble, gracious, munificent, generous,” lit. “of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man,” from liber “free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious,” from PIE \*leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros “free”), probably originally “belonging to the people” (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base \*leudh- “people” (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute “nation, people;” Old High German liut “person, people”) but literally “to mount up, to grow.” With the meaning “free from restraint in speech or action,” liberal was used 16c.-17c. as a term of reproach. It revived in a positive sense in the Enlightenment, with a meaning “free from prejudice, tolerant,” which emerged 1776-88. As for the [Liberal Arts,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts#History) they were called that because they were considered the education of a free man, meaning, in those days (during the Roman Empire), a man who did not have to work for a living. (Medicine and architecture, I once read, were rejected from the curriculum as being too practical.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/18 "2012-12-26T02:14:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, _liber_, the source for library, means book. The origin of liberal is _līber_, which means free. The words in Latin are different with different meanings. Hm. Were they pronounced differently? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/19 "2012-12-26T03:03:35Z")
The latter is pronounced “throat warbler mangroveus”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054/20 "2012-12-26T03:08:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hm. Were they pronounced differently? _Liber_ would sound a bit like, (not exactly like), libber in current American English; _līber_ would sound more like leeber. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-liberal-really-mean/645054.md?page=2)