# What does the word vindictive mean to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949 "2017-08-06T21:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/1 "2017-08-06T21:36:37Z")
Poll on the way. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/2 "2017-08-06T21:44:22Z")
Missed the edit window, but - Stating the reason for the poll, while trying to avoid influencing the results: the other day it occurred to me that I may have always been using ‘vindictive’ incorrectly, and maybe lots of other people have too. Soliciting your well-learned feedback. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/3 "2017-08-06T21:46:50Z")
_always needs to be “right”_ is a good way to put it. Someone described that way wouldn’t be because of an isolated incident where they want to by proven right, it would be because of a pattern of trying to prove they were right, even when a matter is arguable, even when there is no one ‘right answer’, even when they are wrong. The other choices are used commonly also. The word could be used to describe many Dopers. It seems to be the entire point of more than one of the SDMB forums. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/4 "2017-08-06T22:04:51Z")
Follow-up for those who answered “fond of taking revenge”: What is the meaning of ‘vindicate’? How does it differ from “avenge”? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/5 "2017-08-06T22:24:24Z")
I thought the first three were all pretty close, but after thinking about it a minute I went with the first (“fond of taking revenge”). Then I looked it up online, and all the dictionaries I checked agreed with me, so I felt vindicated. “Always needs to be ‘right’” was the only choice that I felt was clearly wrong, since I could easily imagine a person who fit this description yet was not vindictive. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/6 "2017-08-06T22:29:13Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Follow-up for those who answered “fond of taking revenge”: What is the meaning of ‘vindicate’? How does it differ from “avenge”? [Merrian-Webster’s dictionary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vindicate) gives multiple definitions of “vindicate.” “Avenge” is the second, but the first is to justify, confirm, or free from blame. It also says > [@](#): > > It’s not surprising that the two earliest senses of “vindicate,” which has been used in English since at least the mid-16th century, are “to set free” (a sense that is now obsolete) and “to avenge.” _Vindicate_ derives from Latin _vindicatus_, the past participle of the verb _vindicare_, meaning “to set free, avenge, or lay claim to.” “Vindicare,” in turn, derives from “vindex,” a noun meaning “claimant” or “avenger.” Other descendants of “vindicare” in English include such vengeful words as “avenge” itself, “revenge,” “vengeance,” “vendetta,” and “vindictive.” Closer cousins of “vindicate” are “vindicable” (“capable of being vindicated”) and the archaic word _vindicative_ (“punitive”). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/7 "2017-08-06T22:33:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I thought the first three were all pretty close, but after thinking about it a minute I went with the first (“fond of taking revenge”). Then I looked it up online, and all the dictionaries I checked agreed with me, so I felt vindicated. > > “Always needs to be ‘right’” was the only choice that I felt was clearly wrong, since I could easily imagine a person who fit this description yet was not vindictive. How 'bout that. I always assumed vindictive meant a need for vindication but the dictionary says otherwise. Apparently I can’t be vindicated on that point. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/8 "2017-08-06T22:36:59Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Follow-up for those who answered “fond of taking revenge”: What is the meaning of ‘vindicate’? How does it differ from “avenge”? To my understanding “vindicate” means “to prove right (or innocent) _after all_.” To me it implies that someone’s ideas had been widely thought wrong or was felt by most to be guilty previously. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/9 "2017-08-06T23:12:10Z")
Synonyms are rarely exact… Very first Google hit gave me for definition #1: “having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge.” I’d use vengeful for a more forthright and honor-driven type of vengeance; I voted “spiteful” as the best answer available, since to me someone who is vindictive is being a total ass about it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/10 "2017-08-06T23:19:00Z")
Vindictive to me implies spiteful. Not just vengeful, which can be righteous, but small and mean ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/11 "2017-08-06T23:23:58Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I thought the first three were all pretty close, but after thinking about it a minute I went with the first (“fond of taking revenge”). . . . > > “Always needs to be ‘right’” was the only choice that I felt was clearly wrong, since I could easily imagine a person who fit this description yet was not vindictive. Agreed. I actually voted for “spiteful,” but it’s a very fine shade of connotation, and any of the first three choices are pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/12 "2017-08-06T23:27:04Z")
The first three could all apply, but I voted for #1. > [@](#): > > the other day it occurred to me that I may have always been using ‘vindictive’ incorrectly, and maybe lots of other people have too… When lots of people use a word incorrectly, that use becomes correct. It might be painful to accept that, but that’s the way language works. You might say that word means what people think it means, irregardless\* of what the word meant at one time, or what the word “should” mean. \*Og forgive me for writing that! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/13 "2017-08-06T23:32:56Z")
I chose the revenge option, but it’s certainly not the Elizabethan Tragedy type of revenge using axes. Both revenge and pity can be sometimes noble ( mandatory ), and sometimes vile ( unnecessary cruelty ); but vindictive more means to me keeping on kicking when the necessity has long passed. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/14 "2017-08-07T00:02:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When lots of people use a word incorrectly, that use becomes correct Yeah, I’m aware descriptivism exists. It just bugs me that there’s already a way to express ‘vengeful’ or ‘spiteful’ (the words being ‘vengeful’ and ‘spiteful’, respectively.) As I see it, there’s a need for a word expressing “someone driven to self-vindication even by absurd or contrived means”. ‘vindictive’ would have been a great word for it, seeing as how it lines up with ‘vindicate’. But the masses have spoken, as they tend to do. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/15 "2017-08-07T03:16:38Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I thought the first three were all pretty close, but after thinking about it a minute I went with the first (“fond of taking revenge”). Then I looked it up online, and all the dictionaries I checked agreed with me, so I felt vindicated. > > “Always needs to be ‘right’” was the only choice that I felt was clearly wrong, since I could easily imagine a person who fit this description yet was not vindictive. +1. I love it when you guys say things so well I don’t need to type them out 🙂 > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Vindictive to me implies spiteful. Not just vengeful, which can be righteous, but small and mean Vengeful is temporary: seeking vengeance for a specific thing and therefore for a specific period. Vindictive is always seeking it and for the stupidest little offense, which usually includes a lot of imaginary ones. Vindictive people love revenge so much, if they don’t have any reason to seek it they’ll just come up with something. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/16 "2017-08-07T12:24:53Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Vindictive people love revenge so much, if they don’t have any reason to seek it they’ll just come up with something. I see it as the opposite… Vindictive people are obsessed with proving their righteousness or honor, so they’re always inventing fake pretext for revenge. I realize I’m largely alone in this POV, so I’ll try not plot revenge over it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/17 "2017-08-07T12:31:45Z")
Uh, **HMS Irruncible,** that’s pretty much what I said. One of us can’t read, I don’t know which one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/18 "2017-08-07T14:10:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yeah, I’m aware descriptivism exists. It just bugs me that there’s already a way to express ‘vengeful’ or ‘spiteful’ (the words being ‘vengeful’ and ‘spiteful’, respectively.) Yes, the hyoo-man language process is highly illogical. Does it bother you that there are other words for describing the way you feel about things that bug you? Or does that not irritate you at all? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/19 "2017-08-07T15:39:27Z")
I picked “fond of taking revenge” The difference to me between “fond of taking revenge” and “spiteful” is that a spiteful person is angry and harmful to others regardless of if there’s a perceived slight. A vindictive person will by angry and harmful to someone that slighted them. All vindictive people are spiteful, but not all spiteful people are vindictive. A vindictive person may hold a grudge, but it’s more about getting back at someone than being mad at them. A person holding a grudge might avoid going to someone’s party, but a vindictive person will actively try to sabotage the party. The “always right” thing may cause vindictiveness, but it’s not a direct line nor is it required. I wonder what the etymology of “vindictive” and “vindicate” are. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949/20 "2017-08-07T15:49:18Z")
It seems to me there is a spectrum of choices in play. We start with idea of Vindicated, which to me is neutral as to how one feels or acts to other people. On can be found not guilty of a crime, and be or feel vindicated. But I would not use the word Vindictive to describe “always needs to be right”. To me, Vindictive requires the active attempt to harm others. So, “fond of taking revenge” is closest. Although I do find that to be slightly off the mark, as revenge may only be one motive for acting out in a vindictive manner. One may be jealous of someone else and act in a vindictive manner to them. Revenge implies that there was some past occurrence directed at you that you are avenging. “Spiteful” or “holds grudges” do not qualify for me, as those are internal feelings or reactions, rather than active attempts to harm others. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-the-word-vindictive-mean-to-you/792949.md?page=2)