# What does this mean, in terms of me, or society, or the small business environment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667 "2016-05-25T15:16:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/21 "2016-05-25T19:25:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe my goal should be having a stroke and dying on the job. Then all my other goals are achievable pretty much automatically. Dying suddenly at your job as soon as possible is certainly an attainable goal :eek:šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/22 "2016-05-25T19:56:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But I canā€™t keep up a 70 hour work week indefinitely, nor even a 40 hour one, unless Iā€™m ā€œluckyā€ enough to die before retirement. Realistically, I donā€™t foresee retirement as a future option at all. So I can succeed in terms of those goals until I become physically or mentally incapable of working, and then itā€™s off to the cardboard box house and the tins of cat food. Then you need to figure out a better way to make money, or a way to live cheaper than you currently do, so that you can start saving. Iā€™d suggest hitting up your library and seeing what all things they have good books on, to teach yourself, that you could parlay into a career. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/23 "2016-05-25T21:12:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > This was inspired by another GD thread ā€“ [Entrepreneurship as a Way Out of Poverty](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=793944) > > Iā€™ll start by saying Iā€™m not in poverty now, but I was a few years back and Iā€™m still digging my way out of a financial hole that 3+ years of unemployment put me in. So at best Iā€™m on the edge of poverty. Hereā€™s my most recent results into looking into making some additional money. > > I already have a full-time day job, and Iā€™m also an Uber driver for an additional 20-30 hours a week. I added a rider on my vehicle insurance to cover this type commercial driving. Just last week I got an offer from a local resort owner to shuttle guests to and from their business and a couple of airports in the area. This isnā€™t something that can be be done under the auspices of Uber. > > And after a bit of research, I had to decline. My insurance doesnā€™t cover this form of commercial use of my private vehicle. I could add insurance at the cost of something like another $2000/yr, but I donā€™t expect to add enough business to cover the additional expense and make a decent amount for myself. A lot of people might consider doing this off the books and uninsured, and odds are good they could get away with it. Or I could quit my day job and give up the bennies like health insurance and paid vacation, and maybe build enough onto my driving business to make up for what I would lose. But Iā€™m neither type. Iā€™m well into middle age, oh fuck it Iā€™m _past_ middle age, and while I like the idea of making more money and being more independent, Iā€™m risk-averse at this point of my life. > > So do I ā€œlack the will to succeed?ā€ Are societyā€™s regulations for small business and entrepreneurship too burdensome? Or what? Naw, youā€™re just being smart. You didnā€™t mention what the offer was, though it obviously didnā€™t cover $2k of insurance + hassle. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/24 "2016-05-25T21:34:52Z")
It says you arenā€™t desperate enough to risk losing everything you have left. It must be hard but Iā€™ve seen your posts over the years and it sounds like youā€™re working hard to get back on your feet and you have a good attitude about it. Iā€™ve been through hard times financially before, came out of it through hard work, eventually youā€™ll feel some satisfaction from the effort you put in. As for society and the small business environment, well I have nothing good to say about that in regard to your situation. Not everyone would make it back as far as you have already. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/25 "2016-05-25T22:20:07Z")
The resort owner must have liability insurance. If you are driving people specifically for him, asking to be covered under it is not totally unreasonable. And it would cost a lot less than you getting it yourself. The reason for regulations is not that you particularly will get into trouble, but inevitably someone will. If you had an accident that injured your passenger and resulted in extensive medical bills, you going bankrupt wonā€™t pay for them. And I donā€™t know what would happen if some asshole hit you - I doubt if his insurance company would happily pay for it if you were uninsured. (But you need to check with an attorney to be sure.) You come across as an intelligent and literate person. If you have specialize knowledge of anything try writing. Safe and low overhead. The economy is improving also. And I seem to remember someone saying that mowing lawns is the sure road to riches. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/26 "2016-05-26T06:20:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Really? Simply filing some papers would protect me financially if I knowingly run a transport business without insurance, get in an accident and kill or maim some of my passengers? The whole PURPOSE of incorporating is to build a wall between your business assets and your personal assets. If you really want more information, Iā€™m sure the ā€œDummiesā€ series has a book or two. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/27 "2016-05-26T12:54:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > So do I ā€œlack the will to succeed?ā€ Are societyā€™s regulations for small business and entrepreneurship too burdensome? Or what? Neither. You evaluated the risks and the benefits asociated with the additional work and decided the benefits werenā€™t sufficient to justify the risk. Congratulations! Iā€™m not being sarcastic. Plenty of people make decisions based on their inability to accurately assess risk. (Wonā€™t swim in the ocean because of fear of shark attacks, yet text while driving, that sort of thing.) [Unsolicited advice] It sounds as though difficult circumstances are getting you down, which can sometimes lead to tunnel vision. (ā€œIf I donā€™t do this /one thing/ it means I donā€™t want to succeed.ā€) Look, youā€™ve managed lift yourself out of a much worse situation and are now moving in the right direction through some heroic effort. Thatā€™s a great achievement! Please give yourself full credit for that.[/Ua] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/28 "2016-05-26T13:22:20Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The whole PURPOSE of incorporating is to build a wall between your business assets and your personal assets. If you really want more information, Iā€™m sure the ā€œDummiesā€ series has a book or two. I understand that in abstract terms, but itā€™s rather difficult to fathom in this reality. It seems as if the suggestion is that I incorporate myself as an alternative to being adequately insured, in order to immunize myself from the consequence of not having adequate insurance. Wouldnā€™t _intent_ figure into this somehow, and possibly invalidate such an incorporation? I find it very difficult to imagine those two things as a simple choice to make of how to do business. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/29 "2016-05-26T16:49:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I understand that in abstract terms, but itā€™s rather difficult to fathom in this reality. It seems as if the suggestion is that I incorporate myself as an alternative to being adequately insured, in order to immunize myself from the consequence of not having adequate insurance. > > Wouldnā€™t _intent_ figure into this somehow, and possibly invalidate such an incorporation? I find it very difficult to imagine those two things as a simple choice to make of how to do business. Your intuition is right to a certain extent. Youā€™d have to talk to a lawyer about the details, but there are two facts that tend to make limited liability impossible for a very small company: 1. no bank loans money to a tiny new company without a personal guarantee. In fact, itā€™s not unusual to see loans in the millions backed with personal guarantees. That means the person is liable if the company canā€™t pay, so it isnā€™t as simple as having the company alone declare bankruptcy. 2. if you are personally involved in performing services, you probably have a personal liability as well as a company liability. This one depends a lot on the state, the industry, the specific actions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667/30 "2016-05-26T16:58:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I understand that in abstract terms, but itā€™s rather difficult to fathom in this reality. It seems as if the suggestion is that I incorporate myself as an alternative to being adequately insured, in order to immunize myself from the consequence of not having adequate insurance. > > Wouldnā€™t _intent_ figure into this somehow, and possibly invalidate such an incorporation? I find it very difficult to imagine those two things as a simple choice to make of how to do business. Itā€™s not that easy to hide behind a corporation anymore. Your corporation was in a car accident and now itā€™s out of business? Fine, you the person were still the driver and theyā€™ll sue you. IANAL but a lawyer advised me of the limited protections that a small corporation provides. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-mean-in-terms-of-me-or-society-or-the-small-business-environment/755667.md?page=1)