# What does this word mean to you **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126 "2012-06-24T04:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/101 "2012-06-25T14:12:49Z")
Thanks, Peter, for that cogent explanation of what you were curious about. I agree with your initial thought, and how this little survey seems to have confirmed it. Take me, for example – I consider myself relatively well-read, I’m interested in both language and history, _and_ my grandfather was born in China, in 1912 (his father was an American missionary doctor living there). Yet, I cannot recall ever having heard the word “celestial”, as an adjective or a noun, being attached specifically to China. I had some dim notion that it once called itself the “Celestial Empire”, but that’s not a big deal – lots of places call themselves lots of things over the centuries, and so I didn’t mention this is my “definition/synonyms”, just like I didn’t mention Celsetial Seasonings tea products, or a dozen other similar things. Indeed, China’s calling itself the “Middle Kingdom” – still to this day – is overwhelmingly more prominent and well known than the obscure “celestial” thing. So, I agree that the Doctor Who character was almost certainly conceived without China in mind – and even if it were, it would have been likely meant as a sly, subtle, inoffesnive reference by some writer on the show, something he/she expected very few people to “get”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/102 "2012-06-25T14:13:46Z")
I would never have thought of that, and IMO in context the word “celestial” is clearly referring to his god-like powers. On the other hand, the fact that he’s played by an Englishman doesn’t necessarily mean much. Even ten years later, in “The Talons of Weng Chiang” they had the main Chinese dude being played by an Englishman named John Bennett :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/103 "2012-06-25T14:33:09Z")
Yes, but John Bennett wore makeup to make himself look Chinese, and affected an accent. Michael Gough did neither. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/104 "2012-06-25T14:45:57Z")
I’m thinking that the Chinese robe on the “Celestial” alien would have been one of the early instances of TV (and other media) writers “slipping” an innocuous “in-joke” into the screenplay… IOW, I find it hard to believe that this was coincidental, and I find it **equally** hard to believe that it was malicious. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if it turned out to be someone of Chinese heritage who planted this little Easter Egg… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/105 "2012-06-25T15:03:44Z")
Never heard used to reference Chinese/Asia at all. New one to me. Maybe it’s more common as a Britishism? ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/106 "2012-06-25T16:20:32Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster not good enough for you? The first Google hit was the _FreeDictionary_, which includes the definition at issue. That is a good citation. The _FreeDictionary_ provides a total of four definitions, one of which I do not think anyone here has yet identified. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I knew it from a TV show on a related historical topic. But the provenance is not doubtful if you know the phrase Mandate of Heaven and All Under Heaven I have known that phrase since college at the latest (1967-71). This is a question of usage, not provenance. I could easily see the word in question applied to royalty. I had never heard it applied to all citizens, and I am suprised that the royalty would agree to share such a distinguished title with everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/107 "2012-06-25T16:22:57Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How many of you have even heard of that meaning before? Not till this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/108 "2012-06-25T16:39:16Z")
This is the first I’ve ever heard of “celestial” being used for “Chinese”. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/109 "2012-06-25T16:44:51Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How many of you have even heard of that meaning before? I have heard of that meaning before. I’ve visited the Forbidden City in Beijing multiple times, and ther various tourist info goes into that. But it still didn’t make me automatically connect “celestioal” with “Chinese.” ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/110 "2012-06-25T16:56:04Z")
Well, if **Siam Sam** didn’t make the connection automatically, then I feel somewhat less foolish admitting that I did not either. Once **Peter Morris** clued us in, I immediately remembered Mandate of Heaven. Then I read up on it and was entertainingly informed. Great thread! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/111 "2012-06-25T16:57:01Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > This is the first I’ve ever heard of “celestial” being used for “Chinese”. Characters in HBO’s _Deadwood_ referred to Chinese as “celestials”. I’m not sure if it’s historically accurate, but David Milch must have thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/112 "2012-06-25T16:57:37Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Well, if **Siam Sam** didn’t make the connection automatically, then I feel somewhat less foolish admitting that I did not either. Once **Peter Morris** clued us in, I immediately remembered Mandate of Heaven. Then I read up on it and was entertainingly informed. > > Great thread! I always think of them as the Middle Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/113 "2012-06-25T17:30:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Never heard used to reference Chinese/Asia at all. New one to me. Maybe it’s more common as a Britishism? Not in the slightest, no. While I feel as though I may have heard or read a reference to China as “the Celestial Empire” at some point, it’s hardly common usage. Using “Celestial” as a synonym for “Chinese” is something I can’t recall having come across in 50 years of being British (and a Doctor Who fan). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/114 "2012-06-25T17:33:54Z")
I think I might have heard of China being called the “celestial empire”, but it never would have occurred to me to use “Celestial” to mean “Chinese”. To me, that sounds roughly analogous to referring to a German at the time of Charlemagne as a “Holy”. Oh, and as for the Dr. Who character wearing a Chinese-style robe, that’s probably just from the wardrobe department wanting to dress him in something exotic and unfamiliar to British audiences. Making up a completely new style would be a lot of work, so they just used an existing style from far around the globe. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/115 "2012-06-25T17:37:35Z")
Yeah, I don’t think celestial means Chinese anymore than “sun” means Egyptian or Aztec or something. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/116 "2012-06-25T18:14:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and as for the Dr. Who character wearing a Chinese-style robe, that’s probably just from the wardrobe department wanting to dress him in something exotic and unfamiliar to British audiences. Making up a completely new style would be a lot of work, so they just used an existing style from far around the globe. Oh, that doesn’t sound right. 60s Doctor Who would do a whole new alien/future/period style every other week – costumes, makeup, architecture, the works. They did their best, bless 'em, but it didn’t often look like it had been a _lot_ of work. 😃 I don’t know why they had him in a chinese costume (I haven’t seen the story since it was broadcast), but I can’t imagine anyone thought it wouldn’t be immediately obvious that that’s what it was. He’s dressed like Fu Manchu! ---
**Author:** ![Rudiger\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rudiger\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rudiger_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/117 "2012-06-25T18:26:59Z")
Heavenly ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/118 "2012-06-25T18:34:31Z")
Due to the nature of the OP, I did not read anyone else’s replies and will reply only to the original question. To me, Celestial means of or pertaining to the universe, stars and galaxies. HTH, OP. E7T, over and out. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/119 "2012-06-25T18:44:09Z")
Now that I’ve scanned the thread, no, I have not heard of any link between Celestial and Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126/120 "2012-06-25T19:43:53Z")
heavenly; of, or related to the stars [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-this-word-mean-to-you/626126.md?page=7)