I would interpret John ran 6 laps at first, unless I thought about it in which case I’d think 12 laps. 8 doesn’t seem right for the same reason that if (say) a zax is 10 times taller than a zeep, then a zax must be as tall as 11 zeeps.
This is ambiguous. You should say I ran around the track two more times than you did. Times more and more times are not equivalent.
The problem here is that apparently we’re teaching kids to guess the meaning of the question and then hope for the best rather than ask for clarification.
I am a bit baffled by anyone who doesn’t get 12.
When I see a word problem like this, my brain turns into “word math problem mode” which has a different structure than normal English. Words mean their math equivalents, which may or may not correspond to standard phrases in English.
“more” - More means in addition to the original stated amount. Jill has 5 apples. Bill has two more apples than Jill. Bill has seven apples, not two.
“two times” - twice as many (2x).
If Mary did X. Two times what mary did is 2X. Two times more than what mary did is 2X+X.
2*(4) + 4 = 12
I guess some people may say this is contorting the statement, but this is how math problems are worded. They are not meant to convey casual English phraseology.
Crappy question is crappy. I read it as twelve, but could make the case for eight.
It’s certainly not friggin’ six. The case for twelve:
You can’t refer to the unit run as “laps” and then use “times” without clarifying that they’re interchangeable. In this case, you state that Mary ran four laps. Then that John ran two times more. Well, WTF is a “time”? It must be four laps, because that’s what Mary ran. Otherwise you’d state what John ran were laps! So, John ran what Mary ran, and two more, which is twelve. (This laps vs times fiasco is why the answer can’t be six.)
OR
The case for eight:
You put the word “times” in a math word problem, expect people to assume you mean multiplication. The “more” here doesn’t make any sense, but even my sixth grade brain would assume the teacher just wrote a shitty question and filter it out. So two times four, or eight.
If you put the word “more” in a math word problem, expect people to assume you mean addition.
And if you put them BOTH in, expect people to assume you mean multiplication AND addition.
No one gets to expect that ANY word in a math word problem is superfluous and can be neglected. There is no valid case for eight.
This is a mathematical word problem written in American English. Word problems must be translated to mathematical concepts and common use of American English has a way to differentiate between addition and multiplication in this problem.
A. Mary ran four laps, John ran two times more than Mary. How many laps did John Run? 8
B. Mary ran four laps, John ran two more times than Mary. How many laps did John Run? 6
Agree or disagree?
Edit: This is still wonky, because B is not common American English. I think B would actually be:
B. Mary ran four laps, John ran two more times. How many laps did John Run?
Timed out. Hah!
Times is still problematic. John ran two more laps. If the question writer was looking for 6, that would be the correct way to write the problem.
B. Mary ran four laps, John ran two more laps. How many laps did John run?
Don’t put mathematical terms in word problems and expect people to not interpret them mathematically.
My first answer was “8”. The when I read the “correct” answer I conceded that it could very well be “6”. Therefore: ambiguous.
I disagree. I think when you use the word “more” in a word problem people assume it means “greater than”. Since 8 is greater than 4, there’s no problem.
I still wonder what the context of the problem was. Was it on a sheet of addition problems or on a sheet of multiplication problems? Was it on a sheet with a mixture of problem types? Expectations will stem from the lesson taught before the assignment.
Put me down as another vote for 12.
I have a very hard time seeing 6 as an answer. Perhaps it’s a regional/colloquial thing, but if I say “two times more” I mean multiplication. If I meant it to be addition, I would say “two more times.” (Just like I would always say “two more applies” and never say “two apples more” even though that example would be correct and not ambiguous either way.)
But if I say “two times more” I am really implying not just “two times as much.” This part I agree is ambiguous. Do I mean eight laps total or eight laps more? The “two times more” construction is commonly used either way, so I would tend to assume 12 is the answer, but ask for clarification if I cared.
When I first read this, I decided to wait for the confirmed verbatim version of the original question, because to think about and comment on a possibly misremembered version was not worth my time. Upon mature reflection, I have reassessed the value of my time, and have decided to weigh in. 12, of course. Would anyone argue that “once more than” 4 is 4? 6 requires “two times more” to mean two laps more, and I don’t see why it ought to, but that answer wins the silver medal. The argument for 8 seems to be that if a speaker thinks “twice more” means “twice as many”, then it does. My opinion, though, is that when you’re wrong, you’re wrong.
The problem as stated in the OP did not use the word “twice”.
Famous Amos? We need three times fewer than 10.
My mind is boggled by anyone getting 12. You did all that, and I said Mary did four and John did twice that – eight. I can see the ambiguity between six and eight but I can’t get to 12 no matter how hard I try.
I can’t see any answer other than 8. It looks to me like 2 x 4 = 8.
No. You said John did twice MORE THAN that.
Okay, one more try: Two times MORE THAN means 200% MORE THAN. 200% MORE THAN four is twelve.
If you wish to argue that it’s eight, riddle me this: how many is 100% more than four?
Mea culpa*, but I’d have given the same answer with “two times”.
- I’d italicize, but that always struck me as sort of precious.
Thanks…that makes sense now.
I voted “ambiguous”, but I was confused about your thread title until I read the post.
My first thought was that this was a math problem and so “times” was a reference to multiplication, and came up with the answer “8”.
If the teacher meant that the other kid ran two extra laps, I’d rewrite the question to reflect that. “John ran two more laps than Mary”.