# What does "Winning in Iraq" mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809 "2008-09-09T18:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/1 "2008-09-09T18:05:27Z")
This is GQ, so I’m not looking for an argument, or any discussion of right or wrong or good or bad, I’m just hoping someone has a factual answer to this: What would it mean to “win” in Iraq? In other words, what events would have to happen, and/or what circumstances would have to come about that would cause President Bush (and others) to proclaim that we have won in Iraq, and consequently bring all (or most) of the troops home? I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know; in all the talk about Iraq and reports about Iraq and discussions and arguments about Iraq, somehow I have missed what the criteria are that constitute a win. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/2 "2008-09-09T18:28:15Z")
“MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” Don’t you remember? I suspect this thread will be moved soon. I’d have to say that ‘winning’ would be peace, our troops come home, the Iraqis have free and fair elections and the country is stable enough to sell us their oil. Now, if you want to guess how likely those things are to happen… I suspect this thread will be moved soon. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/3 "2008-09-09T18:31:43Z")
Whenever the troops pull out, we will have won. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/4 "2008-09-09T18:38:04Z")
Straight from the horse’s mouth: > [@](#): > > VICTORY IN IRAQ DEFINED > > As the central front in the global war on terror, success in Iraq is an essential element in the long war against the ideology that breeds international terrorism. Unlike past wars, however, victory in Iraq will not come in the form of an enemy’s surrender, or be signaled by a single particular event – there will be no Battleship Missouri, no Appomattox. The ultimate victory will be achieved in stages, and we expect: > > In the short term: > > An Iraq that is making steady progress in fighting terrorists and neutralizing the insurgency, meeting political milestones; building democratic institutions; standing up robust security forces to gather intelligence, destroy terrorist networks, and maintain security; and tackling key economic reforms to lay the foundation for a sound economy. > > In the medium term: > > An Iraq that is in the lead defeating terrorists and insurgents and providing its own security, with a constitutional, elected government in place, providing an inspiring example to reformers in the region, and well on its way to achieving its economic potential. > > In the longer term: > > An Iraq that has defeated the terrorists and neutralized the insurgency. > An Iraq that is peaceful, united, stable, democratic, and secure, where Iraqis have the institutions and resources they need to govern themselves justly and provide security for their country. > An Iraq that is a partner in the global war on terror and the fight against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, integrated into the international community, an engine for regional economic growth, and proving the fruits of democratic governance to the region. [http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq\_strategy\_nov2005.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/5 "2008-09-09T18:39:04Z")
You can’t win a war against a vague concept (terrorism) simply because there’s no finality to it. Unless they could round up all the terrorists and get them to sign a peace treaty of some sort (which I suppose is how most wars usually end), I don’t see there being an end. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/6 "2008-09-09T18:44:09Z")
A country of distinctly different cultures that can work together in a democratic fashion to govern itself. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/7 "2008-09-09T19:23:47Z")
If we went there to beat terrorism ,then we win when terrorism is gone. If we went to control oil and establish military bases we have won. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/8 "2008-09-09T20:22:20Z")
Thanks, pravnik, that’s what I was looking for. What I was _hoping_ for was something far less vague, but that’s for a thread in a different forum. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/9 "2008-09-09T22:08:48Z")
It looks to me as if one of the short term goals (progress on security) has been met. The others really depend on the Iraqi Parliament. I’d say it’s in their hands now. **BrandonR** , victory in Iraq and victory in the “War on Terror” are quite different concepts. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/10 "2008-09-10T00:18:13Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If we went to control oil and establish military bases we have won. What? We control oil now? Did I miss a memo? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/11 "2008-09-10T00:24:51Z")
When they stop hating our freedom, then we have truly won. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/12 "2008-09-10T00:45:58Z")
1. A largely self-sufficient Iraqi government that is essentially democratic. 2. Basically not in the throes of civil war. 3. Has secure and completed American military bases. 4. Preferably is friendly to us. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/13 "2008-09-10T01:29:34Z")
Winning in Iraq means: 1. Finding the WMDs (remember the purpose of the war?) 2. Getting Bush re-elected So 1 out of 2 then. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-does-winning-in-iraq-mean/462809/14 "2008-09-10T02:02:37Z")
Since the OP has gotten a satisfactory answer, and politics are a subject better discussed in GD, I’ll close this one. Feel free to open in another forum if you desire. **samclem** GQ moderator