# What Drummers Fall Below the Mickey Dolenz Line? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656 "2011-06-16T02:44:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/1 "2011-06-16T02:44:21Z")
[This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=612039) made me consider who some of the \*worst \*rock/pop drummers of all time were, but it’s hard to construct a poll with a lot of candidates for worst drummer of all time. Still, I thought it’d be fun to rip on terrible drummers, because whatever. So I thought, you know, here’s how to go about it. Mickey Dolenz of the Monkees was hired into a fake band because of his camera presence and comedy chops, but the guy actually turned out to be a satisfactory drummer.\* He represents a pretty fair expectation of what nobody should be worse than. I call that level of competence the Mickey Dolenz Line. Let’s compile a list of those lucky bastards whose drumming never deserved all the sex and drugs their rock n’ roll lives brought them just because they were behind a drum kit at the right time. I’ll start with Mick Avory of the Kinks. Ray Davies has defended him as a jazz-style drummer, but I think the guy just couldn’t keep a beat. And if he was jazzy, shouldn’t he have once done something the slightest bit interesting? What other drummers just suck? \*I know the Monkees’ tracks had a whole lot of studio musicians, including many early tracks with no actual Monkees playing at all, but I also think Mickey Dolenz played drums on a lot of tracks. Even if I’m wrong about that, I saw him play live during the 1986 reunion tour, and he was just fine. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/2 "2011-06-16T03:34:47Z")
Are you kidding? Avory was a fine drummer whose raw, simple style perfectly matched the Kinks’ music. Do you think they should have had a Neil Peart knockoff instead? Now you want bad drumming? [Check out the Shaggs.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cs1BIlglzI&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/3 "2011-06-16T04:20:27Z")
Two words: Meg White ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/4 "2011-06-16T04:36:53Z")
I’m not the right guy to say this but you know it’ll be said so let’s just get it out of the way now: Ringo Starr. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/5 "2011-06-16T05:20:52Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m not the right guy to say this but you know it’ll be said so let’s just get it out of the way now: Ringo Starr. Dead wrong. . ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/6 "2011-06-16T05:28:46Z")
Every time there’s a drum thread someone has to hijack it with a Ringo crack. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/7 "2011-06-16T05:39:16Z")
I think there are quite a few at-best-satisfactory drummers in Punk. There are also some really good drummers in punk. But in general punk’s style lent itself more to guys who knew how to thrash a drumkit more so than guys who were serious, technically proficient drummers. But maybe that’s just my prejudice speaking. Maybe there’s something about the punk style that I just don’t get. Meg White probably qualifies - her stuff is dead simple to play, and her timing is very uneven. But she’s the best drummer in the world for the White Stripes, because the band is built on her character and Jack’s and the interplay between them, and her drumming style fits her ‘personality’ perfectly. It’s more of an artistic statement than it is a display of great drumming skill. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/8 "2011-06-16T07:33:25Z")
Ringo was a great drummer and is held in high regard by the world’s best rock drummers. Before the next smartarse pipes up, Karen Carpenter was also a very good drummer. So, neither of them. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/9 "2011-06-16T09:14:02Z")
I’m sure I’ll get killed for saying this, but Carl Palmer is the one that always comes to mind for me. The guy was just all over the fucking place, and not in a good way (in my opinion). I was just googling some lists to see if I forgot about anybody, and the first list I came across is one that [agrees with me](http://www.zeitgeistyreport.com/the-lists/2010/03/30/top-10-best-and-worst-drummers-in-rock-roll/), so I’m not completely crazy. (Plus **WordMan** shared some anecdotes years ago here on the Dope of Carl Palmer that confirmed my suspicions.) I’ll never understand what people see in him. The guy is just a total train wreck when it comes to keeping the beat. ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/10 "2011-06-16T12:01:12Z")
Terry Chimes, the first (and, I guess, penultimate) drummer for The Clash. The gap between him and Topper Headon on the first Clash album is pretty wide. I guess he’s not “worse” than Mickey Dolenz, but he’s pretty clunky. (I know he toured with them later on, but I don’t know whether he improved and I don’t think he recorded anything.) Outside of the fringes of punk and inexplicable weirdness like The Shaggs, there are not too many recordings with drummers who don’t have basic competence. They tend to get replaced. There are drummers whose style I hate, but that’s not the same thing. I’d a million times rather be in a band with Ringo or Mick Avory than the “best” hyperactive metal drummer on earth. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/11 "2011-06-16T12:05:18Z")
Richard Manuel of The Band. He was only the drummer when Levon Helm was required elsewhere on mandoline, but the few times he played, it was quirky at best. I’d also throw in Pete Best - he was through town on tour a couple of years ago, and he’s still not very even in terms of time-keeping. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/12 "2011-06-16T13:32:15Z")
Mo Tucker from the Velvet Underground. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/13 "2011-06-16T13:40:55Z")
Dennis Wilson. Great singer. Great stage presence. But not good enough to hack it as a studio drummer. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/14 "2011-06-16T13:43:04Z")
Rikki Rockett - Poison. Mick Brown - Dokken. Tico Torres - Bon Jovi. And a slew of 80’s hair metal drummers who played basic 4/4 on every song. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/15 "2011-06-16T14:03:50Z")
Peter Criss of KISS. Mediocre drummer to start with and got worse as he grew more dissatisfied with the band. He was replaced by Anton Fig for recording session for the last three albums before he left the band. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/16 "2011-06-16T14:42:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m sure I’ll get killed for saying this, but Carl Palmer is the one that always comes to mind for me. The guy was just all over the fucking place, and not in a good way (in my opinion). I was just googling some lists to see if I forgot about anybody, and the first list I came across is one that [agrees with me](http://www.zeitgeistyreport.com/the-lists/2010/03/30/top-10-best-and-worst-drummers-in-rock-roll/), so I’m not completely crazy. (Plus **WordMan** shared some anecdotes years ago here on the Dope of Carl Palmer that confirmed my suspicions.) I’ll never understand what people see in him. The guy is just a total train wreck when it comes to keeping the beat. 😉 Yep; my friend did the engineering on an Asia album and the other players and the producer made his challenges with time an ongoing inside joke. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/17 "2011-06-16T16:37:52Z")
> [@Ichbin\_Dubist](#): > > Terry Chimes, the first (and, I guess, penultimate) drummer for The Clash. The gap between him and Topper Headon on the first Clash album is pretty wide. So _that’s_ it! I just looked this up and had no idea the first album had a different drummer. Makes so much more sense to me now. I’ve always found the drums on that first album to be pretty rough around the edges, and not necessarily in a good way (although it is a great album). Should’ve been bloody obvious that it was a different drummer. ---
**Author:** ![Lips\_Obsession](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@Lips\_Obsession](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lips_Obsession)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/18 "2011-06-16T16:45:00Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > 😉 Yep; my friend did the engineering on an Asia album and the other players and the producer made his challenges with time an ongoing inside joke. Which album? One of the ones with the original lineup, or one of the variations? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/19 "2011-06-16T16:54:44Z")
I’ll bet none of the drummers mentioned could sing “[Goin’ Down](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URb8h4dLKps)” as well as Mickey. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656/20 "2011-06-16T17:26:15Z")
While \*\*Chris Frantz \*\*did a good enough job keeping time for Talking Heads, his playing never seemed to venture beyond page 1 of How To Play Rock Drums. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-drummers-fall-below-the-mickey-dolenz-line/585656.md?page=2)