# What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243 "2013-07-22T20:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/181 "2013-09-04T22:53:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Your argument would perhaps be a little stronger if you could point out some of the other ways in which a photo ID would permit more people to “fully participate in society”. Doing so is a right, not a privilege. Off the top of my head … Getting a job. Cashing a check. Writing a check at the store. Using a credit card in person. Applying for a payday loan. Applying for credit. Opening a bank account. Cashing food stamps (maybe? I don’t know.) Entering your child’s school (if a security procedure) > [@Oldeb](#): > > So then we can agree that the current laws being pushed by the Republican party are in error? Yes or no here, since that’s kind of a big one. > > Obviously we differ in that you feel they’re putting the cart before the horse by asking for IDs that are not yet available, while I feel they’re actively attempting to disenfranchise millions of US citizens by never making such ID available. But we both agree that what’s being done is not the correct action? Voter ID laws that are permissive in their allowance of what constitutes identification such as utility bill, library card, college ID, voters card, etc. are acceptable. The problem is when the state makes acceptable ID very limited and onerous to get. So again it is not the Voter ID law in principle that is the issue but rather how it is implemented. I think the fundamental difference we have is you see as the issue that people are not “allowed” to vote do to a lack of ID and I see the problem that so many people don’t have photo ID. I believe our solutions also differ as you would repeal voter ID laws while I would actively give people the photo ID that incidentally would permit them to vote. > [@Oldeb](#): > > Not even remotely possible at the State level. This in one of those things that’s either Federal or not. And since these are for voting you’re going to need to be able to provide IDs on short notice. Certainly at least a temporary paper ID almost as soon as it’s applied for. Problems include but aren’t limited to: > [ul] > [li]Paying for this project. Not every state is going to be able or willing.[/li][li]Passing such laws 50 times. Not impossible, there’s 50 laws against murder after all, but it’s going to be hard.[/li][li]Verifying each person’s identity and residency status. Remember that this has only gotten harder and more time consuming post-9/11.[/li][li]Accounting for college students. They’ll need to be issued new ID cards when enrolling out of state.[/li][li]Accounting for recent transplants. I don’t know if you’ve ever moved between states, but I’m betting switching your ID was not first on your “to do” list.[/li][li]Accounting for residents of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, and other protectorates and territories. They’re full US citizens and as such able to move to a state and immediately participate.[/li][li]The time requirement to allow people to go obtain their new ID. Not everyone can take a long lunch or afford a day at the DMV even if they can afford the ID itself. You’re going to need increased hours to handle the load.[/li][/ul] > None of that is technically impossible. Added up though it’s never going to happen at a state level. Especially the paying for it, which I can’t stress enough. Yet it is the state level that has all of the systems in place. The Federal government could issue passports but that seems a little overkill for what you want to do. I think the middle ground that is probably most likely (for good or bad) would be a Federal law requiring states to ensure everyone had ID. Just think, if you limited it to supplying just citizens with ID then the Pubs are happy and the Dems are happy because only citizens can vote anyways right? On a more serious note, the right to adequate identification in this day should be recognized. And remember the social welfare is only to those that need help. That minimizes the cost but if you make a certain amount of money and choose not to have photo ID then that’s your choice. > [@Oldeb](#): > > You’re still hung up on being able to drive as required for a better life and even outside the issue of ID that’s completely untrue. Ask any New Yorker. Nor is using a bank a requirement. But I agree that those without government ID would be better off with them. I’m not hung up on it. I simply gave it as one of many things that is commonly done that require photo ID. Hell, I don’t write checks at the grocery store but many people do and that requires photo ID so it goes on the list. > [@Oldeb](#): > > Registering to vote is in no way comparable to being able to pass restrictive voter ID requirements or even obtaining a government issued ID. Pretending any correlation between the two is extremely disingenuous. [Here’s a sample list of people who have struggled to obtain ID.](http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046) All of them would have no trouble registering to vote anywhere in the US. That’s exactly what I said. I said that you show up, say you’re a citizen, show no ID and you can register and actually voting is more difficult. I know this will start another debate but there’s something fundamentally wrong in a system where you don’t have to prove eligibility to vote. Like I said earlier, if all 11 million illegal immigrants decided to register tomorrow, there is nothing to stop them but if you left your wallet at home you don’t get to vote. That seems almost the reverse of how it should work. > [@Oldeb](#): > > Sure. I agree. But you seem to feel that 1 and 2 are the responsibility of the Democratic Party while 3 is the responsibility of the Republicans. And that’s it’s not the fault of the GOP if the Democrats are slacking. > > If you agree that steps 1 and 2 should be done first how can you not be opposed to the restrictive ID laws being passed by Republican states? How can you not feel that that quotes like, “Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” aren’t a blatant admission of manipulating the system to disenfranchise people who don’t vote the “right way”? To the first point, that’s simply not true. I feel it is the responsibility of our state officials (most likely carried out by the county officials) whether Red, Blue, Green or Lavender. It’s not a party issue for me, it’s a social welfare issue for me and asking the question of “How can people take advantage of opportunity (that’s old-school Republicanism) if they don’t have the basic tools needed (like ID and a quality K-12 education).” And yes some states have abused the Voter ID laws to disenfranchise opposition voters just like some states have abused eminent domain laws to seize private property and some states have abused abortion laws to oppress women. The difference between us is at heart Voter ID is a good law but it needs to be implemented in a way that works. You side just wants to get rid of the law which I think is a mistake. Do you want me to say Pennsylvania should get rid of the Voter ID law? I’m not going to but if you want me to say that Pennsylvania should make it easier for voters to have valid ID at the polls then WTF have you been reading since I seem to be the only person in this thread espousing the view. Oh and if you ever visit Northern Colorado we should discuss this over a couple of beers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/182 "2013-09-04T23:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > …You side just wants to get rid of the law which I think is a mistake… Who says this? Can you be specific? Someone who will not accept a compromise that ensures that people who cannot get voter ID will be able to do so quickly and easily? Name them. Name _one._ ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/183 "2013-09-05T18:49:21Z")
I think we have a lot of common ground, **Saint Cad**. You just don’t want to have to admit it. 😛 > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Voter ID laws that are permissive in their allowance of what constitutes identification such as utility bill, library card, college ID, voters card, etc. are acceptable. Okay, but we _can_ agree that this does not resemble the laws Republicans state legislatures have passed in any way, shape, or form? This is a yes or no question. > [@](#): > > The problem is when the state makes acceptable ID very limited and onerous to get. So again it is not the Voter ID law in principle that is the issue but rather how it is implemented. So we agree then that the laws passed by Republicans are a problem as they _do_ make obtaining acceptable ID onerous? Yes or no here too. Assuming you answered yes to both of those how can you possibly support any voter ID laws passed by Republicans in the recent years? They directly contradict your position. > [@](#): > > I think the fundamental difference we have is you see as the issue that people are not “allowed” to vote do to a lack of ID and I see the problem that so many people don’t have photo ID. You’re correct. US citizens potentially being unable to vote will always be worse them not having ID from my point of view. > [@](#): > > I believe our solutions also differ as you would repeal voter ID laws while I would actively give people the photo ID that incidentally would permit them to vote. I don’t mind your solution at all. In fact, I’m for it. But it’s does not help in the short term, does it? Do you honestly think anyone’s going to get IDs to people in time for the 2014 election? The 2016? _Making sure everyone has appropriate ID should be the first step._ If voter fraud is such a concern for Republicans, why are they doing nothing to see everyone get ID? Why are they jumping to step 3 and requiring IDs that not everyone has? _I will continue to support repealing every one of their voter ID laws until such time as your solution comes about._ > [@](#): > > Yet it is the state level that has all of the systems in place. The Federal government could issue passports but that seems a little overkill for what you want to do. I think the middle ground that is probably most likely (for good or bad) would be a Federal law requiring states to ensure everyone had ID. Just look at how well implementation of the Affordable Care Act in Republican dominated states has gone to see what would happen if a law like this were passed. > [@](#): > > Just think, if you limited it to supplying just citizens with ID then the Pubs are happy and the Dems are happy because only citizens can vote anyways right? I’ve seen absolutely no evidence that the real purpose of these laws involves the .00000013% of voter fraud. I’ve seen plenty, including direct quotes by Republican officials, that the purpose is to prevent voting among groups that typically vote in opposition to them. > [@](#): > > And yes some states have abused the Voter ID laws to disenfranchise opposition voters just like some states have abused eminent domain laws to seize private property and some states have abused abortion laws to oppress women. If you change “have” to “are”, I’ll agree with this. We are not talking in a historical context. I’m speaking entirely in the present. > [@](#): > > The difference between us is at heart Voter ID is a good law but it needs to be implemented in a way that works. Okay. But if the current laws do not work why isn’t repealing or altering them the first step? > [@](#): > > You side just wants to get rid of the law which I think is a mistake. I’ve repeatedly agreed with you that I have no problem with Voter ID laws in the abstract. Merely the implementation. Furthermore I don’t think that you’ll be able to find any quote by a Democrat that doesn’t state the problem is the number of people who can’t meet the laws passed by Republicans. > [@](#): > > Do you want me to say Pennsylvania should get rid of the Voter ID law? I’d like you to at least acknowledge that it in no way resembles the type of Voter ID law you’d like to see. > [@](#): > > I’m not going to but if you want me to say that Pennsylvania should make it easier for voters to have valid ID at the polls then WTF have you been reading since I seem to be the only person in this thread espousing the view. I’m waiting for you to explain how you can support the enforcement of IDs that you know people don’t have. Saying making IDs obtainable to all is nice. It doesn’t solve the current problem of 750,000+ people being unable to vote in the next election. It doesn’t address the fact that to fight that .00000013% of voter fraud 18% of Philadelphia has been disenfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/184 "2013-09-05T22:53:34Z")
I curious about people’ view of the new Republican Voter ID laws considering a theme of this thread is that they all disenfranchise voters. The onerous requirements for getting proper ID include: Alabama (no precleared): Obtain a free photo voter ID card form local DPS office. Arizona: Utility bill within 90 days of election Arkansas: You can contact your county clerk for a free voter ID card. Florida (this one is weird): ID can include credit or debit card or public assistance ID Georgia: Free voter ID card from the county or state Or can we conclude that not every Pub sponsored Voter ID law makes it difficult to impossible for people to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/185 "2013-09-05T23:25:37Z")
Are those the _only_ things those laws do? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/186 "2013-09-05T23:42:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Florida (this one is weird): ID can include credit or debit card or public assistance ID Don’t talk to me about Florida. I had to get my DL renewed this year. I have lived in Florida for my entire life. I have had a Florida Driver’s License since I was 16 (29 years). I have been registered to vote in Florida since I was 18 (and have voted in every election). I have been called for jury duty more times than I can count. I have served my country in the military. Guess what I had to do? 1. Go to the main DMV office (only one in a city of 200k+). 2. Wait approx. 1 hr. 3. Provide: > [@Florida DMV](#): > > Whether you’re applying to renew a Florida drivers license online, in person or by mail, you will be required to provide the following documents: > •One primary Proof of Identification > •Two Proofs of Residency > •One Proof of Social Security Number > > Proof of Identification: > •U.S. birth certificate or registration of birth (must be issued by an authorized United States government agency such as the Bureau of Vital Statistics or State Board of Health.) > •U.S. Valid Passport or Passport Card > •Unexpired foreign passport with a valid, unexpired U.S. visa affixed accompanied by the approved I-94 form documenting applicant’s most recent admittance to the U.S. (See additional document requirements listed in the Non-U.S. Citizen section below). > •Valid U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) documents > ◦Certificate of Naturalization > ◦Certificate of Citizenship > ◦Permanent Resident Card > > Proof of Residency: > > Note: Your current driver license or ID card may not be used as proof of residential address. Proof must come from two different types of source. > •Utility bill or Credit bill within the last 90 days > •Federal, state or local government documents, such as receipts, licenses or assessments > •Other documents containing your name and address may be accepted with manager approval. > •Account statement from a bank or other financial institution issued within the last 90 days. > > Social Security Documents (must contain the SSN): > •Social security card (Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers are not accepted.) > •Annual social security statement > •U.S. Internal Revenue Service tax reporting W-2 form or 1099 form > •Payroll check stub issued by employer > •Unexpired U.S. Active Duty/Retiree/Reservist Military ID Card (DD-2 or Common Access Card) (ID cards of military dependents are not accepted.) > > There are several reasons why you may not be able to renew a drivers license in Florida online including but not limited to: > •Your license has been suspended, canceled or revoked and you are requesting an ID card. > •You have previously renewed your Florida drivers license online, by phone or by mail > •A name change due to marriage, divorce, adoption or other circumstances since your last renewal If I was getting an ID card (not DL) > [@FL DMV](#): > > To apply for an ID, first, you should plan a visit to your local driver’s license office. > > You will need to bring your Social Security card and $25 (contact your local DMV as payment methods may differ: [Locations - Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles](http://www.flhsmv.gov/offices/)) along with: > •Certified U.S. birth certificate (or) > •U.S. passport > •Certificate of Naturalization > •Certificate of Citizenship > •U.S. Certificate of Birth Abroad > •Resident Alien Card > •Valid foreign passport with valid U.S. immigration document > > You may also need additional forms of identification if one of the above documents does not contain a photo. For a list of these documents, click here. Now. I have a good job and nobody cares if I take a couple of hours on a Wednesday (IIRC) to renew my license. What if I was paid by the hour or in a “show up on time or take the day off” job? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/187 "2013-09-06T00:40:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Are those the _only_ things those laws do? Stop that! Voter ID laws are the only things that count. Quit trying to change the subject to…other stuff. By the way, did you know you need ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol? Well, you do. And voting is the same thing. Common sense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/188 "2013-09-06T02:06:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Stop that! Voter ID laws are the only things that count. Quit trying to change the subject to…other stuff. > > By the way, did you know you need ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol? Well, you do. And voting is the same thing. Common sense. I.e., it can give you cancer and make you act silly. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/189 "2013-09-06T03:28:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Stop that! Voter ID laws are the only things that count. Quit trying to change the subject to…other stuff. > > By the way, did you know you need ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol? Well, you do. And voting is the same thing. Common sense. Well, there’s nothing that just stands alone on its own terms. Okay, that was an unclear way to put it. What I mean is that if voting should not require ID, there’s got to be a reason for it, and that reason would extend to other things. Not cigs and alcohol, those are vices for which we want to prove age. So why should voting not require ID? Because it’s a basic constitutional right? Okay, there are lots of basic constitutional rights. Is that the doctrine we’re going with, that exercise of basic constitutional rights should not require the showing of ID because it’s too onerous a requirement and infringes on those basic rights? Or maybe it’s because fraud risk is minimal? Okay, there are other things where that is true as well, such as boarding a plane or getting a hotel room. Should not ID requirements also be waived for those types of things? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/190 "2013-09-06T04:27:50Z")
Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, a quaint custom prevails. If for any reason, you are short of ID come election day, you can take a utility bill with your name and address upon it to the polling place. You will also need to personally know a registered voter who will attest, verify, and aver, under penalty of law, that you are said person. And that’s it. You vote. What’s the problem? Why does that need to be changed? And importantly, for who’s benefit? Look me right in the monitor and give me a scouts honor and a cross yer heart that you sincerely believe that the Republican Party’s sole intent with these voter ID laws and the attendant horseshit that goes with them…the restrictions on early voting, voter registration, college student voting, etc. etc…that all of this is nothing more or less than the stern civic virtue of the Republican Party. And i promise I will believe you. At least, I’ll believe that you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/191 "2013-09-06T04:34:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Look me right in the monitor and give me a scouts honor and a cross yer heart that you sincerely believe that the Republican Party’s sole intent with these voter ID laws and the attendant horseshit that goes with them…the restrictions on early voting, voter registration, college student voting, etc. etc…that all of this is nothing more or less than the stern civic virtue of the Republican Party. > > And i promise I will believe you. At least, I’ll believe that you believe it. Not every state. Your side takes the worst states (Pennsylvania & Texas) and ascribe that to every state. What about states where I can take my utility bill to prove identification? Is that onerous? What about Nikki Haley (R) offering free rides to the DMV for ID for those that couldn’t get their on their own? What Democrat governor has ever done that? And I seem to remember when I started voting that there was no early voting or general right to absentee balloting. You wanted to vote you had to show up the the polls next to your house between 8am and 7pm. Was that part of the Republican conspiracy back 24 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/192 "2013-09-06T04:55:42Z")
Tough ID requirements are always struck down. In order to survive court scrutiny, voter ID laws generally need to allow multiple forms of identification, as Minnesota does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/193 "2013-09-06T15:06:37Z")
Two very interesting answers, more for what you avoid saying than for what you do say. I ask you about how voter ID is used as a semi-legitimate cover for sordid buggering of the electoral system, and you tell me, once again, what a sensible and sober suggestion voter ID is. Rather beside the point, isn’t it? I ask you what time it is and you tell me “September!”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/194 "2013-09-06T15:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Saint Cad** : > > Not every state. Your side takes the worst states (Pennsylvania & Texas) and ascribe that to every state. What about states where I can take my utility bill to prove identification? Is that onerous? Who is this “your side” you’re referring to? **elucidator** just said, very clearly, that asking for a utility bill in lieu of ID is acceptable. I know you saw that post, because it’s the very same post you quoted there. So, given that such a measure is acceptable even to someone as far left as **'luci** , why aren’t the Republicans pushing for that, instead of what they’re actually doing? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/195 "2013-09-06T16:12:29Z")
Minor nitpick: the utility bill is to establish that Joe Jones lives at a certain address within the district. It is the registered voter who establishes by testimony that this is Joe Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/196 "2013-09-06T16:36:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who is this “your side” you’re referring to? **elucidator** just said, very clearly, that asking for a utility bill in lieu of ID is acceptable. I know you saw that post, because it’s the very same post you quoted there. So, given that such a measure is acceptable even to someone as far left as **'luci** , why aren’t the Republicans pushing for that, instead of what they’re actually doing? Because not all Republican written Voter ID laws are as bad as Penn and Tex. When I refer to “your side” it is referring to the side that wants to get rid of ALL voter ID laws OR All of the ones Republicans wrote regardless of what ID is actually required. I also use 'your side" for people who when faced with a situation like in Pennsylvania believe the solution is to get rid of the law rather than getting people photo ID. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/197 "2013-09-06T20:32:16Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because not all Republican written Voter ID laws are as bad as Penn and Tex. When I refer to “your side” it is referring to the side that wants to get rid of ALL voter ID laws OR All of the ones Republicans wrote regardless of what ID is actually required. Can you provide any evidence of any elected member of the Democratic party calling for an end to all Voter ID laws on the basis that there should be no Voter ID laws period? Or just calling for an end to Voter ID laws that have requirements not every US citizen can meet? Can you even provide a quote from someone in this thread arguing that Voter ID laws should not exist even in abstract? Or just calling for an end to Voter ID laws that have requirements not every US citizen can meet? > [@](#): > > I also use 'your side" for people who when faced with a situation like in Pennsylvania believe the solution is to get rid of the law rather than getting people photo ID. Here’s what I don’t get, **Saint Cad**. You seem aware that laws like in Pennsylvania and North Carolina are disenfranchising US citizens. You even seem aware that a Republican official stated they were designed to give votes to Republican candidates by targeting Democratic voters for disenfranchisement. You seem aware that it would not be possible to see all US citizens get ID by the 2014 election or the 2016 election even if everyone wanted it to happen. And by everyone I mean the Democrats, the Republicans, and so on all the way down to Illinois Nazis. Given all that, how can you keep repeating the mantra of “getting people IDs fixes everything”? You have to know that it isn’t possible. You have to know that many elected officials have a vested interest in it specifically not happening. I get that .00000013% is just a number to me. I’m more likely to be struck by lightning than to be the victim of voter fraud. Hell, I’m more likely to be struck by lightning than for a fraudulent vote to ever take place in my precinct. You’ve actually been hit by that lightning bolt so obviously you’re more vested in preventing it than I ever will be. But surely even you have to see that with 11% of all US citizens not having valid, government-issue ID any attempt to fight that .00000013% of voter fraud by requiring ID is either completely misguided at best or actively malicious at worst until that issue can be addressed. I can push for _future_ laws enabling people to get ID all I want, but that will do nothing to help those who have been disenfranchised by the Republican party _now_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/198 "2013-09-06T21:12:59Z")
I’m not so sure Texas _and_ Pennsylvania deserve the tops spots in the contest. Its like an Ugly Dog contest, with Texas the clear winner entering a _chupacabra_ with advanced leprosy. But North Carolina entered a Mexican hairless with mange. A certain charm in Texas Republicans utterly shameless and blatant grasp for power, perhaps North Carolina was a bit timid by comparison. Tell a Texas Republican they are making a brazen and corrupt political maneuver and they will stare at you wondering what point you are trying to make. “Yes. _And_ so, what, exactly?” IIRC, a number of the top contestants offered to make all state issued photo IDs valid for voter ID, with the exception of student ID’s issued by state colleges, for reasons that remain obscure. Well, actually, the reasons aren’t obscure at all, are they? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/199 "2013-09-07T03:41:29Z")
So what’s your opinion on the Rhode Island version? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/200 "2013-09-07T04:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > …Voter ID will be phased in over two election cycles… That, coupled with what appears to be an earnest effort to reach out with their voter id program, makes it pretty kosher from where I sit. Have you a point you would like to offer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243.md?page=11)