# What effect did voter-ID laws have in the 2012 election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243 "2013-07-22T20:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/41 "2013-07-24T22:40:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, you didn’t miss it. > > But sure, what the hell: > > The study identifies known instances of voter fraud, and in each cases announces, “None of these cases would have been affected by the use of photo ID.” On [what page](http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf) does it say that? > [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not correct. The presence of a Photo ID requirement means that a legally sufficient case for fraudulent voting can be made. You may remember I linked, as an example, to the case of Ramon Cue in Miami. Mr. Cue is not eligible to vote. Yet records show he repeatedly voted. > > But because he denied it, and there was no requirement for Photo ID, there’s no real way to convict him – and his case does not show up on the list of confirmed voter frauds. > > That’s a main flaw of the conclusions of the Brennan Center study. [So,](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/gov-rick-scott-florida-is-absolutely-not-targeting-minorities-in/1233277) you got nuttin’. > [@](#): > > “We are investigating the allegations,” said Ed Griffith, Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office spokesman. “First, we need to make sure the data is accurate.” > > No easy task. Any large-scale effort to clean voter rolls is beset with false positives and errors due to misspellings and inaccurate addresses in a database of more than 11 million active voters, plus nearly 1 million more classified as inactive voters. > > Cue, 53 and from Miami, told the Herald he’s a schizophrenic, doesn’t remember voting and said **three others have his same name and birth date.** “I’ve never voted a day in my life,” Cue said. “I’ve lived in this house for 14 years and I have never filled out any paperwork regarding voting.” > > Walters couldn’t be reached. The 13 total noncitizen voters identified so far on the Miami-Dade rolls are minuscule compared to the 492 people identified as citizens and, therefore, lawful voters. > > Of the more than 1,600 potential noncitizens in Miami-Dade about 65 percent have cast ballots. About 72 percent have cast ballots of the 262 identified in Broward. > > In all, the Florida Division of Elections has identified nearly 2,700 voters who may not be eligible to vote because they are not U.S. citizens. But, supervisors say, **the vast majority found have turned out to be citizens.** You don’t know he ever voted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/42 "2013-07-24T23:37:57Z")
An asteroid could be hurtling towards Earth, for a direct impact. Its entirely possible. Morgan Freeman (wise, noble) and Steve Buscemi (weasly drug addict) are running for President. Possible. It comes down to super dooper razor thin margin, one vote! One! That is _possible!_ And an illegal alien junkie votes for Buscemi, and we all die. Possible. So, of course, what you are saying is that its ok for everybody to fucking die just so a few Democrat voters aren’t inconvenienced! Liberal hypocrisy, legal and constitutional, you guys are dicks to me because I’m conservative. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/43 "2013-07-24T23:53:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not really, no. > > As a matter of federal law, the Voter ID scheme used in Indiana is completely and utterly legal. That’s a fact. There’s nothing in question about it. > > Other states have enacted other, slightly differing schemes. They may or may not pass muster. > > What states do you contend have problematic laws, specifically? Mostly the ones that are already blocked. Pennsylvania, for one. Florida, for another, that lead to those huge lines. Ohio. Oddly enough, all controlled by Republican executives. I guess places like California which has no voter ID laws must have no voter fraud. Us blue states are just more law-abiding, I guess 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/44 "2013-07-25T00:17:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On [what page](http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf) does it say that? Page 23, three instances. > [@](#): > > [So,](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/gov-rick-scott-florida-is-absolutely-not-targeting-minorities-in/1233277) you got nuttin’. > You don’t know he ever voted. Someone using his name and his address voted. That’s the problem. ---
**Author:** ![CatC303](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@CatC303](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatC303)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/45 "2013-07-25T01:01:11Z")
Suppressing votes is just wrong. If we want to be a true democracy, we want all citizens to vote — not just the white or privileged citizens. I cried when I saw those long lines of African-Americans waiting for hours and hours to vote in Florida where the Governor did all he could to prevent them from voting. Shame on Gov. Scott. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/46 "2013-07-25T01:10:15Z")
> [@CatC303](#): > > Suppressing votes is just wrong. If we want to be a true democracy, we want all citizens to vote — not just the white or privileged citizens. I cried when I saw those long lines of African-Americans waiting for hours and hours to vote in Florida where the Governor did all he could to prevent them from voting. Shame on Gov. Scott. [He ain’t done yet.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/legislature/us-supreme-court-voting-decision-likely-to-stop-legal-challenge-to-florida/2131208) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/47 "2013-07-25T01:16:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So all the claims that insisting on voter ID would decrease minority turnout are…? What? > > I don’t care one way or the other. For me, the issue was about confidence in the result. If minority turnout increases, as long they’re valid voters, that’s fine. That’s what representative democracy is all about. That’s a losing argument here on SD. See the lefties here think that voter ID laws are only put in place by the big bad Republicans to make sure minorities and poor people don’t vote. The idea of having any guaranty that only registered voters actually vote is not in their psyche. Proof? Anytime I tell the story about how in California someone got there ahead of me and voted using my name and disenfrachising me, it is always blown off by the libs on the board. I guess disenfranchising someone without ID is bad but disenfranchising a white male Republican is OK. If it were about letting legal voters vote and the sanctity of elections, then maybe one of them could address the gaping (and pro-Dem) loophole that under the Voters Rights Act, all 11 million illegal immigrants could claim to be citizens and register to vote with no proof of citizenship. You see, it’s not about letting every voter vote for them - it’s about letting everyone vote no matter who they are. > [@Bricker](#): > > Someone using his name and his address voted. > > That’s the problem. See what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/48 "2013-07-25T01:17:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That is the most pathetic, irrelevant, embarrassing, lameass, fumbling dodge of a nonanswer you have posted here in a very long time. > [@elucidator](#): > > So, of course, what you are saying is that its ok for everybody to fucking die just so a few Democrat voters aren’t inconvenienced! Liberal hypocrisy, legal and constitutional, you guys are dicks to me because I’m conservative. If you want to address another poster this way, do it in the Pit. In this forum you have to at least make an attempt to be civil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/49 "2013-07-25T02:50:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you want to address another poster this way, do it in the Pit. In this forum you have to at least make an attempt to be civil. This is not GD, it’s the **Elections** forum. Why should we have to be any more civil than the elections are?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/50 "2013-07-25T03:31:38Z")
I think you misunderstand: my post was a _parody_ of **Bricker** ’s argument, not directed to **Bricker**. Never crossed my mind that I was drawing outside the line. But hey, you are with the Luminous Ones, you say I’m wrong and gotta eat some shit, got my grin, got my spoon. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/51 "2013-07-25T18:44:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > See the lefties here think that voter ID laws are only put in place by the big bad Republicans to make sure minorities and poor people don’t vote. The idea of having any guaranty that only registered voters actually vote is not in their psyche. The only gaping logic here is your typical Republican schtick. The fact of the matter is, voter fraud like the one you described is exceedingly rare. That’s fact, there’s no disputing that. If, like Republicans claim, they want to reduce voter fraud, they’ll tackle the areas where disenfranchisement happens the most, which is in these dumbass Republican bills floating around in states all over the country. You see, if the REAL goal is the stop voter fraud, you’d be much more worried about how many legitimate voters are denied their right to vote by restrictive laws rather than the tiny minority of voter fraud occurring when something happens like you described. So which is it? Attack the areas where the most voters are disenfranchised? Or take a tiny minority of voter fraud cases and create laws that will add to the first category? Its like abortion, something Republicans frequently get wrong. If Republicans wanted to reduce abortion and help children, they would support family planning, sex education, free condoms, and availability of contraceptives. However, they are fixated solely on abortions, they want to shut down clinics, reduce contraceptive use, and eliminate sex ed and replace it with abstinence ed. Those things do not help them achieve their goal of reducing abortions! Just as voter ID laws do NOT reduce their stated goal of voter fraud and in fact will add to it. That is something no Republican gets ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/52 "2013-07-25T19:17:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The idea of having any guaranty that only registered voters actually vote is not in their psyche. And why should there even be such thing as a “registered voter” anyway? Seems to me any interaction you’ve ever had with government that creates a record of your current address should count as your registration. You want photo ID for voting? Fine, I’ll show my driver’s license at the polls **instead** of registering to vote; that ought to be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/53 "2013-07-25T19:18:28Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > So which is it? Attack the areas where the most voters are disenfranchised? Or take a tiny minority of voter fraud cases and create laws that will add to the first category? Then answer this question: 1. How many citizens over 18 were denied their chance to vote because a) They lack appropriate ID b) They are unable (not merely unwilling) to get the appropriate ID ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/54 "2013-07-25T19:33:40Z")
First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/55 "2013-07-25T19:34:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And why should there even be such thing as a “registered voter” anyway? Seems to me any interaction you’ve ever had with government that creates a record of your current address should count as your registration. You want photo ID for voting? Fine, I’ll show my driver’s license at the polls **instead** of registering to vote; that ought to be enough. Non-citizens can drive. Let me guess: _…and why should the vote be limited to citizens, anyway? It’s an outrage!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/56 "2013-07-25T19:35:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. I changed my mind about same-sex marriage after evidence presented here showed the error of my position. Now provide US with proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/57 "2013-07-25T19:51:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Then answer this question: > > 1. How many citizens over 18 were denied their chance to vote because > a) They lack appropriate ID > b) They are unable (not merely unwilling) to get the appropriate ID That is simply a more narrowly tailored version of the question I asked in the OP; and so far nobody seems to know the answer or where to find it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/58 "2013-07-25T19:53:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Non-citizens can drive. I would not object to a box on the DL specifying citizenship status. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/59 "2013-07-25T20:01:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would not object to a box on the DL specifying citizenship status. That’s reasonable. And in fact, I’m fine with the honor system: that box gets checked because you indicate you’re a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243/60 "2013-07-25T20:19:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > First offer us proof that providing you guys with evidence has ever changed your minds. As **Bricker** has indicated, he can and does change his mind when evidence and argument can show him his position is inconsistent or incorrectly formulated. I can vouch for that, as I’ve been involved in discussions here where that happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-did-voter-id-laws-have-in-the-2012-election/664243.md?page=4)