# What Effect Will Trump's Concentration Camps have on his reelection campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738 "2019-06-19T12:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/301 "2019-06-25T20:28:52Z")
[They are moving kids BACK into that fucking hellhole of a concentration camp.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/migrant-children-mistreatment-border-facility-moved-back_n_5d1251e0e4b0a394186955ed?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaHVmZnBvc3QuY29tLz9ndWNjb3VudGVyPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANSZXU0OVrgWBfkzMoSznq1w9BnfLQh6kG2D1MXQ9BVSHFVLBJsmpeoaxmdtLFLmlVN1lwQtOQcCniofPgVelipHeLsKnVO0liOtmz8EVOQQarA35qoS4x5k3AEob9xvoYi2KV1NmVWmMkreQgUOy2lqnG-bjKaFNg8QwEXRJzIx) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/302 "2019-06-25T20:30:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m aware of some of the reports of conditions in the “camps”. I don’t generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they’re propagandizing for and pushing, and they’ll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally. Do you have evidence that they are well-run and the kind of place that kids belong? Before these border issues came to everyone’s attention, would you think that the American Academy of Pediatrics was not a credible organization? But – just to make clear – today you do not think of them as being very credible? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/303 "2019-06-25T20:38:15Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you have evidence that they are well-run and the kind of place that kids belong? > > Before these border issues came to everyone’s attention, would you think that the American Academy of Pediatrics was not a credible organization? But – just to make clear – today you do not think of them as being very credible? It’s Trumplogic 101: “That which contradicts Trump is not credible” ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/304 "2019-06-25T20:38:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m aware of some of the reports of conditions in the “camps”. I don’t generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they’re propagandizing for and pushing, and they’ll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally. On one hand, doubting the veracity of anything that any officials related to Trump state is not entirely unreasonable. On the other hand, the fact that a Department of Justice lawyer argued under oath before a court that DHS is not actually required to provide soap to people held in the camps and therefore that it’s OK that they don’t, which includes openly admitting that they aren’t providing things like soap and toothpaste, is about as credible as one can get. > **[Here's why the Trump administration says it's not required to give migrant...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-administration-migrant-children-in-u-s-custody-dont-need-to-be-provided-soap-and-toothbrushes/)** > > A recent court argument by a Justice Department lawyer left some judges incredulous and drew quick condemnation from immigrant advocates and Democrats This goes back to my earlier comment about Trump supporters; we have a government lawyer stating in court that they are not providing soap to people detained in the camps, and rather than be outraged at the flagrant abuse of people and the flagrant disregard for the laws of the United States, they dismiss it all as ‘fake news’. They have no problem with torturing immigrant children, and stick their fingers in their ear and deny it when the government itself states what the policy is, but do cry and clutch their pearls if the concentration camps are called such. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/305 "2019-06-25T20:39:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [They are moving kids BACK into that fucking hellhole of a concentration camp.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/migrant-children-mistreatment-border-facility-moved-back_n_5d1251e0e4b0a394186955ed?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaHVmZnBvc3QuY29tLz9ndWNjb3VudGVyPTE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANSZXU0OVrgWBfkzMoSznq1w9BnfLQh6kG2D1MXQ9BVSHFVLBJsmpeoaxmdtLFLmlVN1lwQtOQcCniofPgVelipHeLsKnVO0liOtmz8EVOQQarA35qoS4x5k3AEob9xvoYi2KV1NmVWmMkreQgUOy2lqnG-bjKaFNg8QwEXRJzIx) No problem, nothing to see. They just heard the kids were dirty so they installed new showers. what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/306 "2019-06-25T20:50:24Z")
I found [this](https://arcdigital.media/no-the-u-s-is-not-running-concentration-camps-at-the-border-3d0c6eeb0caf) article pretty compelling on why the whole Concentration Camps thing is bullshit. I’m fairly certain just about no one else in this thread will, and I have no idea of the politics of the people who wrote it. Probably neo-Nazi or conservatives or something like that. I didn’t bother checking and, frankly, don’t give a fuck. The arguments themselves seem pretty compelling to me, so I’m going to quote some from the article. You all probably shouldn’t bother reading since it’s almost certainly some evil conservative organization. > [@](#): > > Twitter is in a frenzy after Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) made comments accusing President Donald Trump’s administration of holding immigrants detained at the U.S.-Mexico border in “concentration camps.” For multiple reasons, her tweets reveal a troubling ignorance of history and are counterproductive to finding real solutions to immigration challenges. > > Ocasio-Cortez claimed that “expert analysis” concluded the Trump administration “has established concentration camps on the southern border.” She further attacked “shrieking Republicans,” who resisted her use of the term “concentration camps,” by claiming that “concentration camps are not the same as death camps” and “are considered by experts as ‘the mass detention of civilians without trial.’” > [@](#): > > Let’s start with the basic premise that immigration is a complex and challenging topic in a nation that has more immigrants than any other on the planet. It is not reasonable to allow people to cross the border without supervision or restriction. With that said, there certainly are valid criticisms of how the White House has handled a number of immigration-related issues. > > Even if you agree with the most hawkish immigration views espoused by the Trump administration, and want even legal immigration sharply reduced, there are still major inefficiencies in how immigrants are processed. Once we take people into custody, we have a moral duty to do what we can to ensure their safe and humane treatment. > > One standout problem with the controversial child separation policy is the lack of planning for how to keep track of which children belong to which adults or how to reunite them. Last year, I brought up the bar code ID wristbands most hospitals use for newborn babies in several tweets. The wristbands and scanners are cheap and simple technology and would have greatly simplified reunifications, especially for younger children with less developed verbal skills. > [@](#): > > There are documented cases of human traffickers attempting to bring children over the border to be victimized, cartels seeking to present young male gang members as “teenage children,” and many border crossers lack ID documents, so it is reasonable for authorities to make efforts to verify identities and family relationships. But sending children and adults to separate locations, often with hundreds or even thousands of miles in between, without common-sense tracking procedures, leads to the government-created chaos and heartbreaking tales of trauma widely reported in the news. > > All of this to say, I have no problem conceding the point to Ocasio-Cortez that improvements are needed in our immigration system, which currently contains avoidable cruelties. > > What is not fair, however, is her accusation that the United States is operating “concentration camps.” > [@](#): > > To support her accusation, Ocasio-Cortez cites experts like historian Andrea Pitzer who use a broad definition of the term, applying it to “the mass detention of civilians without trial.” > > Several left-leaning publications concurred with Ocasio-Cortez, with Esquire quoting a University of Virginia professor to say, “Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz,” and Slate posting a meandering article titled, “Not Every Concentration Camp is Auschwitz.” > > With all due respect to the sources Ocasio-Cortez rounded up, the basic core of Ocasio-Cortez’s definition is flawed, not because the detention centers don’t constitute “concentrating” people or because they can’t plausibly be construed as “camps.” It’s because there is something crucial missing from the characterization. It is simply false to say that they are being held “without trial.” This is kind of the crux, here IMHO: > [@](#): > > The fundamental purpose for their detention is to give the American authorities time to verify identities and facts supporting any claims for asylum or other status that would grant a right to entry, and then to hold a hearing where the case can be resolved. They are literally being held for the purpose of having a hearing. > > Ocasio-Cortez appears to be opposed to any detentions at all, based on her comments calling for the abolition of ICE and her criticisms of our border patrol protocols. That’s a radical view, and not one that has widespread support among Americans. > > It is impractical, inefficient, and a risk to national security to allow immigrants to cross the border illegally and then release them unsupervised into the general population without any plausible way to track them and compel them to return for their hearings. Conservatives have rightfully criticized “catch and release” tactics as the antithesis of sensible border security. > > Are we keeping people in humane conditions? Does it take too long to be able to have a hearing? What can we do to verify children’s identities more quickly and accurately, so that they can remain with their parents? > > These are all fair questions to ask. But unless we decide to start putting ankle bracelets on all illegal immigrants, or we develop the technology capable of reliably tracking them, the function of detainment centers as a prelude to receiving a hearing is going to continue. > [@](#): > > The detention centers are holding people based on activity taken at a physical location: they were found crossing the U.S. border illegally. These immigrants are detained without regard to race, religion, or any other category. They chose to cross the border illegally, not only knowing there was a risk they would be apprehended by Border Patrol, but many of them actively seeking out the Border Patrol agents and voluntarily surrendering. > > Moreover, as multiple conservatives pointed out on Twitter yesterday, the immigrants in U.S. detention centers have the option to agree to be deported back home. Concentration camps are not known for allowing their prisoners to voluntarily leave to go home or anywhere else. > > The bottom line is that the foundational goals of concentration camps and the U.S. detention centers are completely different. As stated above, the detention centers are meant to hold immigrants until their status can be ascertained and a hearing held to determine their fate. > > The purpose of a concentration camp is far more nefarious: to remove unwanted people from the main population. Whether that elimination is accomplished by murdering them outright, as countless Holocaust victims were led off the trains straight into the gas chambers, or by imposing harsh working conditions, starvation rations, and a deprivation of proper medical care until prisoners collapse and die, the goal is the same, to wipe out the targeted group of people. > [@](#): > > Our immigration detention centers are not without serious flaws, but they are not concentration camps and it’s dishonest to describe them that way. As Arc Digital Editor-in-Chief Berny Belvedere pointed out, Ocasio-Cortez and her supporters are trying to stretch the phrase’s definition in both directions: to “define it down” to give them more ability to apply it to the detention centers, but still take advantage of the term’s “historical severity to score points.” > > As is all too common with political arguments, once the debate has devolved into one side calling the other Literally Hitler, progress becomes far more difficult. When someone is accusing you of being philosophically kindred spirits with evil that, in self-conscious expectation of genocide, eliminated millions of innocents, why would you trust them to have a fair and honest negotiation? But, you know, it’s not about calling Trump Hitler or trying to make that mental connection. :dubious: As I said earlier, show me someone who is pushing legislature to fix the issues, to up funding and resources for this. That isn’t want is happening. Instead, what seems to be happening is folks arguing about definitions and trying to craft the narrative for political gain or advantage, to paint one side or the other in a certain light. It doesn’t seem anyone actually wants to address the problems (and they are many) with what we are doing, instead, they want to score points. If the Dems were pushing, hard, for increased funding to address the myriad deficiencies then I’d be all for that…it’s what we need to be doing. Instead of mud slinging for political gain with both sides basically fucking up and no one trying to fix the problem. And by ‘fix’ I don’t mean ‘all these folks should be released immediately and no one detained’, as that isn’t a fix IMHO. We do need border control, and it’s ridiculous to say we don’t. We need a way to hold the folks who are illegally trying to enter the US when they are caught and to process them, either back to their home countries or into the queue on the path to become citizens. I’m all for fixing our broken immigration system and allowing more folks in, but just letting in everyone and anyone who feels like illegally crossing the border isn’t an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/307 "2019-06-25T20:58:38Z")
Shorter version: “The Dems are not doing enough to fix this. It’s entirely their fault.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/308 "2019-06-25T21:00:29Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Shorter version: > > “The Dems are not doing enough to fix this. It’s entirely their fault.” 😛 Yeah, like I haven’t blamed the Pub’s for getting us into this mess by having Trump pull the trigger on this mess without a single thought to how to logistically or fiscally support it and them just playing along. What the ACTUAL fucking short version? A FUCKING pox on both your houses, you stupid shits. How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/309 "2019-06-25T21:00:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It doesn’t seem anyone actually wants to address the problems (and they are many) with what we are doing, instead, they want to score points. If the Dems were pushing, hard, for increased funding to address the myriad deficiencies then I’d be all for that…it’s what we need to be doing. The problem isn’t funding, the problem is that the agencies holding people in concentration camps want conditions to be as bad as they can legally get away with. This won’t be fixed by giving people who think that they don’t need to provide kids with soap and toothpaste more money. Also on the allegedly ‘unbiased’ article > [@](#): > > Ocasio-Cortez appears to be opposed to any detentions at all, based on her comments calling for the abolition of ICE and her criticisms of our border patrol protocols. That’s a radical view, and not one that has widespread support among Americans. Calling for the abolition of ICE is not equivalent to calling for no detentions, it’s a actually a conservative (not right-wing) position calling for us to go back to what we had in the 1990s. ICE is a recently created law enforcement agency, it was only created in 2003, so clearly it’s possible to have functioning border controls without that specific agency. Similarly, “criticisims of border patrol protocols” is not equivalent to calling for no detentions at all, it’s criticising certain positions. Any article claiming to be unbiased that paints things like ‘lets get rid of this recent addtition and handle things like we did in the 1990s’ as a radical view equivalent to opening the border is clearly highly biased. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/310 "2019-06-25T21:02:46Z")
> [@XT](#): > > 😛 Yeah, like I haven’t blamed the Pub’s for getting us into this mess by having Trump pull the trigger on this mess without a single thought to how to logistically or fiscally support it and them just playing along. > > What the ACTUAL fucking short version? A FUCKING pox on both your houses, you stupid shits. How’s that? Nah: Go with “both sides do it. Why bother to vote?” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/311 "2019-06-25T21:02:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I found [this](https://arcdigital.media/no-the-u-s-is-not-running-concentration-camps-at-the-border-3d0c6eeb0caf) article pretty compelling on why the whole Concentration Camps thing is bullshit. I’m fairly certain just about no one else in this thread will, and I have no idea of the politics of the people who wrote it. Probably neo-Nazi or conservatives or something like that. I didn’t bother checking and, frankly, don’t give a fuck. The arguments themselves seem pretty compelling to me, so I’m going to quote some from the article. You all probably shouldn’t bother reading since it’s almost certainly some evil conservative organization. Well, I actually did check, just to make sure who we’re talking about wasn’t a historian, or otherwise had relevant credentials. She doesn’t. She’s an editor at RedState. And the “crux” of her argument boils down to “But we really _neeeeed_ the concentration camps!” I’d appreciate it if we all would refrain from contradicting the opinion of countless relevant experts with the terrible arguments of right-wing media editors. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/312 "2019-06-25T21:03:06Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > The problem isn’t funding, the problem is that the agencies holding people in concentration camps want conditions to be as bad as they can legally get away with. This won’t be fixed by giving people who think that they don’t need to provide kids with soap and toothpaste more money. Also on the allegedly ‘unbiased’ article > > Calling for the abolition of ICE is not equivalent to calling for no detentions, it’s a actually a conservative (not right-wing) position calling for us to go back to what we had in the 1990s. ICE is a recently created law enforcement agency, it was only created in 2003, so clearly it’s possible to have functioning border controls without that specific agency. Similarly, “criticisims of border patrol protocols” is not equivalent to calling for no detentions at all, it’s criticising certain positions. Any article claiming to be unbiased that paints things like ‘lets get rid of this recent addtition and handle things like we did in the 1990s’ as a radical view equivalent to opening the border is clearly highly biased. I never said the article was unbiased…I, in fact, told you not to read it because at a guess it was from a conservative author and probably publication. So, with that out of the way, I disagree. Funding IS the issue. That and just poor planning, as well as political fuckupery on both sides. Trump et al got us into this mess, and the Dems are, IMHO, trying to score points on it instead of trying to fix the core issues. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/313 "2019-06-25T21:04:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you have evidence that they are well-run and the kind of place that kids belong? … I’d be hesitant to ascribe the label “well-run” to much of anything the government does, but I recognize that they’re in a bit of a bind with the recent surge in illegal immigration overwhelming their current infrastructure and they seem to be scrambling to catch up. It probably would have been easier if Nancy had agreed to President Trump’s request for additional border security funding. Oh well. > [@Ravenman](#): > > … Before these border issues came to everyone’s attention, would you think that the American Academy of Pediatrics was not a credible organization? But – just to make clear – today you do not think of them as being very credible? No. I’ve thought the AAP has been pushing a partisan angle for a long time now. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/314 "2019-06-25T21:04:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, I actually did check, just to make sure who we’re talking about wasn’t a historian, or otherwise had relevant credentials. > > She doesn’t. She’s an editor at RedState. And the “crux” of her argument boils down to “But we really _neeeeed_ the concentration camps!” > > I’d appreciate it if we all would refrain from contradicting the opinion of countless relevant experts with the terrible arguments of right-wing media editors. Well, there you go…a conservative, as I said. And you dismiss the arguments…which is what I thought. Now back to the circle jerking wankage, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/315 "2019-06-25T21:08:22Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I never said the article was unbiased…I, in fact, told you not to read it because at a guess it was from a conservative author and probably publication. So, with that out of the way, I disagree. Funding IS the issue. That and just poor planning, as well as political fuckupery on both sides. Trump et al got us into this mess, and the Dems are, IMHO, trying to score points on it instead of trying to fix the core issues. You’re absolutely incorrect. The problem is policy. Who they are deciding to hold, for how long and rather public admission that these harsh conditions are meant as a deterrent. They grafted these policies onto the old detention infrastructure and you thnk funding helps because then the old infrastructure might manage the new policy. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/316 "2019-06-25T21:09:48Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I never said the article was unbiased…I, in fact, told you not to read it because at a guess it was from a conservative author and probably publication. So, with that out of the way, I disagree. Funding IS the issue. That and just poor planning, as well as political fuckupery on both sides. Trump et al got us into this mess, and the Dems are, IMHO, trying to score points on it instead of trying to fix the core issues. In my opinion (and others), funding is really not the issue. The reason that there are poor conditions in the children’s isolation camps (calling them “concentration camps” seems to hurt some people’s feelers), is not a lack of money. It’s not that ICE can’t afford soap. Or a way to clean the children’s clothes. It’s that they DON’T WANT TO. The position of this president and his administration is that conditions for these children should be made as terrible as possible, as a deterrent. To send a message; “The USA is a terrible place to come for asylum. Don’t come here. We don’t want you. You will be treated terribly and your children will be put in cages with no hygiene.” More money will not help when those in charge don’t want to spend money to improve conditions. When the VERY POINT is to give them poor conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/317 "2019-06-25T21:12:12Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Now back to the circle jerking wankage, I’m sure. I wonder if you think this statement is advancing the debate? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/318 "2019-06-25T21:12:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I found [this](https://arcdigital.media/no-the-u-s-is-not-running-concentration-camps-at-the-border-3d0c6eeb0caf) article pretty compelling on why the whole Concentration Camps thing is bullshit. I’m fairly certain just about no one else in this thread will, and I have no idea of the politics of the people who wrote it. Probably neo-Nazi or conservatives or something like that. I didn’t bother checking and, frankly, don’t give a fuck. The arguments themselves seem pretty compelling to me, so I’m going to quote some from the article. You all probably shouldn’t bother reading since it’s almost certainly some evil conservative organization. > > This is kind of the crux, here IMHO: > > But, you know, it’s not about calling Trump Hitler or trying to make that mental connection. :dubious: As I said earlier, show me someone who is pushing legislature to fix the issues, to up funding and resources for this. That isn’t want is happening. Instead, what seems to be happening is folks arguing about definitions and trying to craft the narrative for political gain or advantage, to paint one side or the other in a certain light. It doesn’t seem anyone actually wants to address the problems (and they are many) with what we are doing, instead, they want to score points. If the Dems were pushing, hard, for increased funding to address the myriad deficiencies then I’d be all for that…it’s what we need to be doing. Instead of mud slinging for political gain with both sides basically fucking up and no one trying to fix the problem. And by ‘fix’ I don’t mean ‘all these folks should be released immediately and no one detained’, as that isn’t a fix IMHO. We do need border control, and it’s ridiculous to say we don’t. We need a way to hold the folks who are illegally trying to enter the US when they are caught and to process them, either back to their home countries or into the queue on the path to become citizens. I’m all for fixing our broken immigration system and allowing more folks in, but just letting in everyone and anyone who feels like illegally crossing the border isn’t an answer. The reason this is so unconvincing is because we have the words of Trump, Trump officials, and Trump advisors – they instituted the family separation policy for reasons of deterrence. In other words, they _wanted to harm and threaten to harm families_ so that migrants would be afraid to come. Harming children and families wasn’t a bug, but a feature – it was what they wanted to do. Further, we have on record Trump officials arguing that these children didn’t need hygiene supplies and blankets, and other barbarous nonsense. The article above is just trying to spell out the kindest fairytale to make Trump look as good as possible. When we look at the whole story, including Trump’s words and the words of his administration, it’s clear that harming children is part of what they’re trying to do (not because they’re mustache-twirling villains, but because they think harming these children is helpful to deter migrants from coming – still monstrous, but not cartoon-villain monstrous). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/319 "2019-06-25T21:17:13Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re absolutely incorrect. The problem is policy. Who they are deciding to hold, for how long and rather public admission that these harsh conditions are meant as a deterrent. They grafted these policies onto the old detention infrastructure and you thnk funding helps because then the old infrastructure might manage the new policy. Well, you are disagreeing with me, even though I did mention this. I said funding was part of the problem. There are many others. In the short term, however, I think funding and increased manpower and logistics support are important to fix the chronic issues in the short term. I’m unsure how anyone thinks that the best way to solve this is to score political points or debate deeper policy positions or program infrastructure while we have an immediate problem, to be honest. Should we be looking at the deeper issues and policies down the road? Absolutely, especially our immigration and refugee system. But right now we need to fix the chronic problems with a bunch of folks who have illegally attempted to enter the US and need to be processed in as humane of conditions as possible. We need to address the issues with families, especially since it’s a bit more complex than many in this thread seem to realize, as children have been abducted and used as cover for folks trying to get into the US. There are a host of issues, but I think that right now, the immediate one is to try and start actually solving issues, not fucking around more or pointing fingers. YMMV…it almost certainly does, since just about everyone in this thread is against seemingly everything I write on this subject. The irony of the fact that my own family came to the US illegally and basically in these same conditions and areas isn’t lost on me. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/320 "2019-06-25T21:17:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It probably would have been easier if Nancy had agreed to President Trump’s request for additional border security funding. Oh well. That would make a whole lot of sense if Democrats hadn’t already offered Trump BILLIONS in additional border security funding, provided it wasn’t used to build The Wall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=17)