# What Effect Will Trump's Concentration Camps have on his reelection campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738 "2019-06-19T12:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/321 "2019-06-25T21:19:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I wonder if you think this statement is advancing the debate? I wonder if you’ve ever been the focus of a SDMB pile on. I’m guessing…no. No, it doesn’t advance the debate, but it sure is good for letting me vent my frustration sometimes at you folks. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/322 "2019-06-25T21:20:09Z")
Let me get this straight-The Prez is putting kids into concentration camps because we won’t fund his wall? He would have spent spent the money on the camps _first_ if we had just given him what he wanted? Is that the claim being made? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/323 "2019-06-25T21:22:10Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, there you go…a conservative, as I said. And you dismiss the arguments…which is what I thought. Now back to the circle jerking wankage, I’m sure. I’m just not interested. They may be very convincing arguments, I’m sure, so get back to me when she can rally a handful of academics - people who are in a good position to evaluate the arguments - to her cause. But that you consider it convincing is, to put it bluntly, _worthless_. Because convincing right-wing people to go along with the right-wing line is her _job_. She does this shit for a living. Independent of the merit of the arguments, mind you, it is literally her job to be an editor and author for a website that is _basically_ right-wing propaganda. I said it from the start - don’t bring me this shit. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Also, quick meta note. > > I’d rather we not discuss whether or not we’re actually running concentration camps at the borders. **At least if you don’t have at least some form of expertise (say, a historian, or a holocaust expert) to weigh in with**. This thread is not about the “whether”, it’s about the “electoral impacts of”, and while “this isn’t a thing that will have an impact because it’s not a thing” is a take one can have, I sincerely doubt that anyone involved is going to step the rhetoric down, especially as conditions in the camps continue to worsen and people keep on dying. Whether “concentration camp” is 100% accurate or not, now it’s out in the mainstream, and it’s very unlikely that that genie gets put back in the bottle. > > (Besides, I tried to have that conversation before and it didn’t go well. I do welcome anyone interested to make their own thread, and I’ll gladly participate in it, but let’s try to keep this thread on topics germane to elections, i.e. “what will this do to the polls”.) I’ve cited maybe a dozen historians, most of whom specialize in the holocaust, all calling them concentration camps. You may find the arguments put forward by the editor at Red State convincing. I find them _incredibly_ weak, personally. But neither of us are in as good of a position as any of the dozen or so academics I cited. And they’re all pretty clear on whether or not these are concentration camps. Again, [here’s a recent list from Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps-immigrants-detention-centers-southern-border-experts-1445483). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/324 "2019-06-25T21:34:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … I’ve cited maybe a dozen historians, most of whom specialize in the holocaust, all calling them concentration camps. You may find the arguments put forward by the editor at Red State convincing. I find them _incredibly_ weak, personally. But neither of us are in as good of a position as any of the dozen or so academics I cited. And they’re all pretty clear on whether or not these are concentration camps. > > Again, [here’s a recent list from Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps-immigrants-detention-centers-southern-border-experts-1445483). Your use of the word “all” here is wrong. From your Newsweek cite: > [@](#): > > Jay Geller, a history professor at Case Western Reserve University, said Ocasio-Cortez was deliberately using the term “concentration camp” because of its “powerful association” with the Nazis. “In the popular imagination, the expression… evokes images of Dachau and Buchenwald [concentration camps], if not Auschwitz,” he told Newsweek. > > “She and others want to invoke our moral indignation through reference to the Holocaust, not the Boer War,” he said, adding he would personally use terms such as “internment camps” or “detention camps” instead. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/325 "2019-06-25T21:37:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I wonder if you’ve ever been the focus of a SDMB pile on. I’m guessing…no. No, it doesn’t advance the debate, but it sure is good for letting me vent my frustration sometimes at you folks. With the definition of “you folks” being “the people who keep telling me that the preponderance of evidence shows that the horrible conditions in the camps are not caused by lack of funding, but rather this administrations desire to create horrible conditions in the camps as a deterrence.” This is the problem. Funding is not the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/326 "2019-06-25T21:37:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your use of the word “all” here is wrong. From your Newsweek cite: If I apologize for this minor error, will you apologize for that incredibly tasteless joke at the expense of children in concentration camps? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/327 "2019-06-25T21:42:13Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If I apologize for this minor error, will you apologize for that incredibly tasteless joke at the expense of children in concentration camps? I’ve already pointed out that you were wrong. I’m not really interested in an apology from you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/328 "2019-06-25T21:51:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your use of the word “all” here is wrong. From your Newsweek cite: And, just to make the point: > [@](#): > > Simon added: “It’s not the term that matters as much as the fact that tens of thousands of innocent people are being held in terrible conditions with little to no recourse.” > > “This is not the Holocaust, but it is a serious issue which will not improve without radical changes to the detention policies and treatment of those detained,” she said. “It threatens not only those in captivity, but also the democratic ideals of this nation.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/329 "2019-06-25T21:56:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve already pointed out that you were wrong. I’m not really interested in an apology from you. Of course, better to pull out the mote out of his eye first, instead of casting out the beam out of the administration’s eye. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/330 "2019-06-25T21:56:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’d be hesitant to ascribe the label “well-run” to much of anything the government does, but I recognize that they’re in a bit of a bind with the recent surge in illegal immigration overwhelming their current infrastructure and they seem to be scrambling to catch up. Funding is one component, but the Administration has consistently sought to deter people fleeing the violence in their country by making migrants as miserable as possible. If one’s main objective is to make other people miserable, it isn’t actually a defense to say that they didn’t have sufficient money to make life humane. > [@](#): > > It probably would have been easier if Nancy had agreed to President Trump’s request for additional border security funding. Oh well. And yet, the Republican-controlled Senate produced its own version of the bill fewer than 48 hours before Pelosi; both of which were written nearly two months after the request. And you only blame the Democrats. I think your partisan bias is showing here. Plus, see comments above. > [@](#): > > No. I’ve thought the AAP has been pushing a partisan angle for a long time now. I think this is your anti-science bias showing. Do you also think the ICRC is biased? They are supposed to do a study soon. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/331 "2019-06-25T22:10:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … And yet, the Republican-controlled Senate produced its own version of the bill fewer than 48 hours before Pelosi; both of which were written nearly two months after the request. And you only blame the Democrats. … “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives”. > [@Ravenman](#): > > … I think this is your anti-science bias showing. … I don’t think so, but I’ve got a request for you: Go [here and read this little article](https://www.medpagetoday.com/pediatrics/generalpediatrics/70141) (it’s not very long), and then come back and tell me if you can see how some people might conclude the AAP is something less than entirely non-partisan. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/332 "2019-06-25T22:18:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And, just to make the point: Yes, that was my point earlier: If it’s as bad as you claim, you should be able to make that argument without resorting to Nazi references. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course, better to pull out the mote out of his eye first, instead of casting out the beam out of the administration’s eye. He’s the one here making erroneous posts, and reading and responding to what I’m writing; “the administration” isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/333 "2019-06-25T22:22:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, that was my point earlier: If it’s as bad as you claim, you should be able to make that argument without resorting to Nazi references. > > He’s the one here making erroneous posts, and reading and responding to what I’m writing; “the administration” isn’t. :rolleyes: It is not my problem if you spectacularly ignore the point, seems that children can be abused and nothing is wrong in your view. > **[The horrifying conditions facing kids in border detention, explained](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/25/18715725/children-border-detention-kids-cages-immigration)** > > On any given day, 2,000 children are in Border Patrol custody, and the problems are hardly confined to one facility. > [@](#): > > That’s illustrative of the hectic improvisation that’s characterized much of the Trump administration’s response to the current border influx. It’s a problem that is much, much bigger than the problems at a single facility. Indeed, the problems investigators identified at Clint are problems elsewhere as well. > > The lone member of the team of legal investigators who visited the El Paso facility in which many children were sent from Clint — called “Border Patrol Station 1” — told Vox that conditions there were just as bad as they were in Clint, with the same problems of insufficient food, no toothbrushes, and aggressive guards. > > The problem isn’t the Clint facility. The problem is the hastily-cobbled-together system of facilities Customs and Border Protection (the agency which runs Border Patrol) has thrown together in the last several months, as the unprecedented number of families and children coming into the US without papers has overwhelmed a system designed to swiftly deport single adults. > > It is apparent that even an administration acting with the best interests of children in mind at every turn would be scrambling right now. But policymakers are split on how much of the current crisis is simply a resource problem — one Congress could help by sending more resources — and how much is deliberate mistreatment or neglect from an administration that doesn’t deserve any more money or trust. But hey, removing a mote in the eye of a poster in a message board is more important… /s ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/334 "2019-06-25T22:24:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, that was my point earlier: If it’s as bad as you claim, you should be able to make that argument without resorting to Nazi references. And as has been pointed out by many here, over and over again and by others who have a great deal of expertise on the subject: The term “concentration camp” is quite an accurate one in this instance, and does not have to mean “Nazi death camp”. There is one side making a big deal of mentioning the Nazis here, and equating “concentration camp” to “Nazi camp”. Look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/335 "2019-06-25T22:25:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m aware of some of the reports of conditions in the “camps”. I don’t generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they’re propagandizing for and pushing, and they’ll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally. On what facts do you base this opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/336 "2019-06-25T22:29:38Z")
By all accounts, the conditions that the people are being held in sound terrible. From conception to execution, nothing seems like it was done with competence. But when I read “concentration camps”, the entire thing falls flat to me. This was discussed early on in the thread - it seems transparently inflammatory. From a real politk point of view, I’m not sure if that is a good tactic to take. Maybe it is because it will motivate more people to vote who otherwise wouldn’t. Or maybe it is a good tactic because it will energize the base. I don’t know. But I do know there is a vast difference between rounding up people already in the country and holding them against their will, and detaining people who are voluntarily attempting to enter the country and may or may not have a right to be here. That false equivalence is doing a lot of work and it’s wholly unpersuasive for me. If a politician started calling what is happening “communist genocide” as well, I think they would get some people to agree with that. But a lot of people would think - this isn’t really communist genocide. And pointing that out isn’t a defense of what is happening, because words matter. A more interesting question to me, is whether it’s appropriate to create a deterrent to immigration by making the process more difficult? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/337 "2019-06-25T22:32:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > A more interesting question to me, is whether it’s appropriate to create a deterrent to immigration by making the process more difficult? According to Trump and his team, they made conditions more unpleasant and harmful (i.e. purposefully separating families) for deterrent purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/338 "2019-06-25T22:44:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > But when I read “concentration camps”, the entire thing falls flat to me. This was discussed early on in the thread - it seems transparently inflammatory. And, according to nearly every academic who has weighed in, _ **entirely appropriate** _. Words do matter - why don’t you ask the actual experts? Historians who are experts in the holocaust are standing up and saying, “These are concentration camps”. The excuse “but we NEEEEEEEEEEED them!” does not change their classification. It also doesn’t dodge some rather horrifying historic parallels. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/339 "2019-06-25T22:44:53Z")
I’m pretty sure this sentence from the Red Stater’s article is inaccurate. > [@](#): > > The detention centers are holding people based on activity taken at a physical location: they were found crossing the U.S. border illegally. Many of those being held did not cross the border illegally. They legally presented themselves at a port of entry and requested asylum. They didn’t break the law. They showed up on our doorstep and asked for help. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/340 "2019-06-25T23:01:09Z")
I guess we have to admit that there are bad people on both sides here. One the one side we have an administration that takes people who have legally requested asylum, and separates them from their children. The children are kept in segregated areas in poor conditions and not given appropriate supplies such as soap or toothpaste. Some of the children have died. Many of these separations were done with such poor oversight that many of the children will never see their parents again. And the administration has said that the bad conditions will serve as a deterrent to prevent others from having the audacity to come and ask for asylum. On the other hand, some bad people have used the term “concentration camps” to describe the areas where the children are held, and this is an inflammatory term, that reminds people of the horrible events of World War II. These two things are exactly alike, and these two groups of people are equally bad. Also, any reports on these children in camps are fake news. And no, you can’t send anyone to look at the camps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=18)