# What Effect Will Trump's Concentration Camps have on his reelection campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738 "2019-06-19T12:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/421 "2019-06-26T16:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, that lawyer was defending an OBAMA-era “concentration camp” that had failed to provide soap and toothpaste. He’s the one that was running those unsanitary camps, not President Trump. Do you still believe it was “a deliberate policy”? This is false, by the way, no matter how often it is repeated. The facility might date back to Obama or before, but the lack of hygiene supplies (and the justification for that lack) is pure Trump administration. Which shouldn’t be surprising – the Trump administration is on record advocating for harming migrant children for deterrent purposes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/422 "2019-06-26T16:22:22Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Not sure how I could have put the blame more firmly on Trump than I have, so, again, that seems to be in your head. I disagree with your assessment that all of this was planned and is the outcome Trump et al want or wanted. To me, this is again assuming Trump is playing (evil) 3D chess or something, where I think stupidity and incompetence are more realistic reasons for the cluster fuck than design and intention. The conditions on the border are a lot more brutal than I think folks who don’t live here realize. It can be literally freezing at night and scorching during the day. There is almost no humidity in many parts, so dehydration is a deadly issue. There are all sorts of environmental conditions here that make it difficult to house and hold lots of people. I don’t think you could balance trying to be cruel but not have thousands dying. Instead, my thought is that they didn’t think…Trump just said to do it without considering the ramifications and hasn’t taken his head out of his ass to actually look at the consequences or the situation. Don’t worry him with the small shit, he’s a big picture man! :rolleyes: Based on the words of Stephen Miller and many others in the administration (and Trump himself), it’s exceedingly clear to me that these brutal conditions on the border are _useful and positive_ for their desired policy. I think it should be clear to you that having these facilities in brutal conditions is _what they want on purpose_, not something that they just happen to have due to incompetence. They’ve said again and again that they want to deter migration by making things like this very unpleasant, up to and including harming children through family separations. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/423 "2019-06-26T16:26:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is false, by the way, no matter how often it is repeated. The facility might date back to Obama or before, but the lack of soap and toothbrush (and the justification for that lack) is pure Trump administration. Which shouldn’t be surprising – the Trump administration is on record advocating for harming migrant children for deterrent purposes. You are flat-out wrong. > [@](#): > > Over the years, lawyers acting on behalf of minors protected by the Flores Agreement have filed numerous motions asking judges to enforce it, claiming that the government has fallen short of its obligations. **They filed the motion now at issue in 2016, during the Obama administration** , arguing that ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and CBP (Customs and Border Protection) were violating the Flores Agreement by, among other things, confining minors in facilities that are not “safe and sanitary.” [source](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/why-sarah-fabian-argued-against-giving-kids-toothbrushes/592366/) The “no soap or toothpaste” complaint came from evil Obama’s deliberate policy to harm children. That guy’s a fucking asshole! Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/424 "2019-06-26T16:26:25Z")
> [@Krark](#): > > Ok, I haven’t slogged through all 400+ replies, so forgive me if I repeat something that’s been said but here is my two cents: > > I DON’T CARE IF THEY CROSSED ILLEGALLY. > I don’t. Not one little bit. Even keeping the most hardened criminals in these conditions would be MORALLY WRONG. > And these are not hardened criminals, these are people fleeing violence and poverty that we, as a nation, had a hand in creating! > And, there is NO justification for keeping children in a concentration camp. Zero. None. > > Every single person who believes otherwise deserves to die in a fire. > > Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Welcome. I think you’ll like it here.😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/425 "2019-06-26T16:26:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I must admit, I was pleasantly surprised as well. I still contend that more money will not do much good, as most of it seems to be going into the hands of for-profit companies. > > But still - it’s good news for the reasons you point out. I hope it does some good…assuming it happens. Basically, to me we are in the triage stage. We need to fix the immediate issues and patch the problems. That means money, material, personnel and logistic support. Once the immediate issues are being mitigated THEN I think we need to start looking at the policies and what the actual goal here is, and start doing some systemic restructuring. IF we are going to increase border security and actually hold those caught trying to illegally enter the US in the numbers we have been doing it, and IF we are going to be going after those already in the country, rounding them up to process them back to their countries of origin, then we need to figure out how to do that better. Or, not. I’m a fan of opening up the Visa program to allow seasonal workers to enter the US, do the work they are doing, then go home again. I think that, alone would help a lot with the problems we’ve been having, as if you are a person wanting to do that work in the US today, you almost HAVE to stay because it’s such a bitch to get back in. Then we need to start addressing the issues happening in Central America that are causing a lot of the current problem. Those countries need to be assisted and stabilized, and in the long term they need to be made economically prosperous. We don’t have a big issue with Canadian’s streaming illegally across the border, and, ironically, we don’t have that big an issue with Mexican’s doing that either anymore (contrary to what seems to be a popular belief), because those countries have both got jobs and prosperity at home. Right now, many countries in Central America are melting down or on the brink because of Venezuela’s melt down and literally millions fleeing certain starvation, which is destabilizing the region and causing lots of folks to head towards the US. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/426 "2019-06-26T16:38:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You are flat-out wrong. > > [source](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/why-sarah-fabian-argued-against-giving-kids-toothbrushes/592366/) > > The “no soap or toothpaste” complaint came from evil Obama’s deliberate policy to harm children. That guy’s a fucking asshole! Agreed? This does not support your position (and your characterization is factually false): > [@](#): > > United States District Judge Dolly Gee, who considered hundreds of declarations from minors and their parents, ultimately ruled that CBP was violating the Flores Agreement. **In 2017, during the Trump administration, she found that CBP failed to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and that it deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights. Gee also found that CBP’s obligation to provide “safe and sanitary” conditions included providing soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes.** Gee ultimately ordered CBP to appoint a monitor to bring its facilities into compliance with the Flores Agreement. The “motion now at issue” is regarding the requirement for conditions to be “safe and sanitary”, per the “Flores agreement” (from the 90s, IIRC). There have been many disputes about what is “safe and sanitary” (regarding a wide variety of characteristics) for decades, including in the Obama administration. But only in the Trump administration has it specifically been about lack of hygiene supplies and blankets (among other complaints), and only in the Trump administration has a lawyer argued that hygiene supplies and blankets are not required for conditions to be “safe and sanitary”. And only in the Trump administration has it been the policy to purposefully make children suffer for deterrent purposes. It’s quite reasonable to believe these facts are related. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/427 "2019-06-26T16:55:21Z")
**HD** , is it Obama’s problem to fix, or Trump’s? This isn’t getting you anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/428 "2019-06-26T17:01:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **HD** , is it Obama’s problem to fix, or Trump’s? > > This isn’t getting you anywhere. For some, it’s obvious that the whole point is NOT to fix any problem, but rather to ASSIGN BLAME. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/429 "2019-06-26T17:02:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This does not support your position (and your characterization is factually false): > > The “motion now at issue” is regarding the requirement for conditions to be “safe and sanitary”, per the “Flores agreement” (from the 90s, IIRC). There have been many disputes about what is “safe and sanitary” (regarding a wide variety of characteristics) for decades, including in the Obama administration. But only in the Trump administration has it specifically been about lack of hygiene supplies and blankets (among other complaints), and only in the Trump administration has a lawyer argued that hygiene supplies and blankets are not required for conditions to be “safe and sanitary”. > > And only in the Trump administration has it been the policy to purposefully make children suffer for deterrent purposes. It’s quite reasonable to believe these facts are related. You are flat-out wrong. The unsanitary conditions that gave rise the complaint existed during the Obama administration. [Here is some additional documentation on the case](https://www.aila.org/File/Related/14111359v.pdf). > [@](#): > > **On July 24, 2015, the Court found that Defendants Jeh Johnson and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (“DHS”) and its subordinate entities, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (“ICE”) and U.S. Customs and Border Protection (“CBP”) had breached the settlement agreement** (the “Agreement”) that they had reached with Plaintiff Jenny L. Flores and other class members—accompanied and unaccompanied minors—in 1997. Flores v. Johnson, 212 F. Supp. 3d 864 (C.D. Cal. 2015) (“July 24, 2015 Order”). The Court subsequently gave Defendants an opportunity to respond to the Court’s proposed remedies. On August 21, 2015, the Court issued its remedial order. Flores v. Lynch, 212 F. Supp. 3d 907 (C.D. Cal. 2015) (“August 21, 2015 Order”). Defendants appealed. > > On July 6, 2016, the Ninth Circuit issued its opinion, affirming the district court in part and reversing in part. In particular, the Ninth Circuit concluded that while “the Settlement unambiguously applies both to accompanied and unaccompanied minors,” it “does not create affirmative release rights for parents.” Flores v. Lynch, 828 F.3d 898, 901 (9th Cir. 2016). > > Before the Court is Plaintiffs’ motion to enforce the Agreement. (“Pl. Mot.”) [Doc. ## 201, 202.] According to Plaintiffs, Defendants are in breach of the Agreement by (1) continuing to detain class members in deplorable and unsanitary conditions in CBP facilities (also referred to as “Border Patrol Stations”); (2) failing to advise class members of their rights under the Agreement; (3) failing to make and record ongoing efforts aimed at release or placement of class members; (4) detaining class members for weeks or months in secure, unlicensed facilities; (5) commingling class members with unrelated adults for extend periods; and (6) interfering with class members’ right to counsel. Plaintiffs request that the Court appoint a special monitor to ensure Defendants’ compliance with the Agreement. Defendants filed an opposition. (“Def. Resp.”) [Doc. # 208.] They then filed a motion for an evidentiary hearing, which the Court granted in part and denied in part. (“October 7, 2016 Order”) [Doc. # 274.] > > The Court in its October 7, 2016 Order stated that it would hold a January 30, 2017 evidentiary hearing on four of the six issues Plaintiffs identified. … ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/430 "2019-06-26T17:04:07Z")
Just for fun, I was wondering how hard it would be to take in 4 of these children, and do it on the paltry sum of only $750/child/day. Here’s a tentative budget I came up with. \*\*4 kids, one year, $750/day/kid budget = $1,095,000\*\* Salary – me, executive director of child procurement and oversight = $150,000 Cook – I don’t like cooking. 20 hours/week @$30/hour = $31,200 Cleaning – I don’t like cleaning. 20 hours/week @$30/hour = $31,200 Gardening/pool maintenance – I will be too busy. 20 hours/week @$30/hour = $31,200 Psychologist/counselling. Probably a good thing for these kids $200/hour, 3 hours/week/child for one full year = $124,800. A big ticket item, but worth it, I think. Private school tuition. I think they deserve this, right? $10,000 per child = $40,000 Music lessons, art lessons, swimming lessons… these things are good for kids. $5,000/kid = $20,000 Rent of 6 bedroom house in El Paso: - luxury home in Loretto/Radford - 6 bedroom, 3.5 bathrooms - Den, family room, fireplaces Cul-de-sac close to schools Fenced back yard with pool, sauna Kitchen with granite counters, all stainless appliances = $3,000/month, $36,000 total Furniture for house: Bedrooms @ $10,000 each = $60,000 Kids will have to make to with just a small TV in each of their private bedrooms Living room = $15,000 Other rooms = $20,000 Food - average cost in USA is $2641 per person per year, so lets say $5000 = $25,000 including me. Clothing, other costs per child = $10,000 each per child = $40,000. We can probably afford soap and toothpaste on that. Utilities, other monthly incidentals = $2,000/month = $24,000 Cell phones for kids and me $300/month = $3600 Car. I”ll need a 7 passenger Range Rover discovery. = $80,000 Insurance, gas, etc. for car = $15,000 Restaurants Once/week for 5 people@$150 = $7,800 Holiday. Kids should go to Disneyland, right? Hotel and airfare = $7,000 Food = $2,000, Disney tickets = $5000 Souvenirs= $1000 total = $15,000 Christmas and birthday presents for kids = $5,000/kid = $20,000 GRAND TOTAL $789,800 Hmmmm. Better give myself a bonus. $150,000 bonus for doing such a good job. Total = $ 939,800 You know what? I’m going to just return the excess $155,200 to the taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/431 "2019-06-26T17:07:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You are flat-out wrong. The unsanitary conditions that gave rise the complaint existed during the Obama administration. [Here is some additional documentation on the case](https://www.aila.org/File/Related/14111359v.pdf). This does not dispute anything I said. There have long been court cases about the “safe and sanitary” requirements of the Flores agreement, which I said multiple times. This is the first time the specific disputes about “safe and sanitary” conditions were about hygiene supplies, blankets, and the other specifics of this case. Once again: > [@](#): > > In 2017, during the Trump administration, she found that CBP failed to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and that it deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights. Gee also found that CBP’s obligation to provide “safe and sanitary” conditions included providing soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes. Only under Trump did CBP “fail to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and… deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights”, and did not provide “soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes”. These were new complaints under the Trump administration. And the Trump administration is the only one that advocated for purposefully harming children for deterrent purposes. What you are arguing is mostly factually false, and the parts that aren’t factually false don’t conflict with the assertion that it is the Trump administration that denied and then try to justify denying children toothbrushes, soap, blankets, and more. You’ve shown no evidence that the Obama administration denied children these supplies and then tried to justify denying these supplies to children. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/432 "2019-06-26T17:09:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **HD** , is it Obama’s problem to fix, or Trump’s? > > This isn’t getting you anywhere. Then please stop responding to him. 🙂 I’ll extend this invitation to everyone else in the thread. **HD** has been posting things that are patently wrong and incredibly inflammatory since he joined the thread, and it’d really be easier if we just collectively stopped responding. There are real issues to talk about. None of them are furthered by interacting with him. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/433 "2019-06-26T17:12:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And anyway, it’s hard to provide luxuries like soap and toothpaste and clothing to children when the private contractors are only getting [$750 Per child PER DAY](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/contractors-get-750-per-child-per-day-to-detain-migrants-somethings-wrong-here/2018/09/07/8ad78e1a-b1ea-11e8-8b53-50116768e499_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8ae7a7b8f3e4)to house and feed them. I mean, how can they make any profit on such a pittance from the taxpayer? Just to merge in a topic of another thread, I think the kids are owed reparations of $750 a day on top of the absurd amounts that are being spent on their unconscionable living conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/434 "2019-06-26T17:23:26Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Then please stop responding to him. 🙂 > > I’ll extend this invitation to everyone else in the thread. **HD** has been posting things that are patently wrong and incredibly inflammatory since he joined the thread, and it’d really be easier if we just collectively stopped responding. There are real issues to talk about. None of them are furthered by interacting with him. Knock it off. Take your campaign to convince others to ignore posters to the Pit where it belongs. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/435 "2019-06-26T17:54:28Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Knock it off. Take your campaign to convince others to ignore posters to the Pit where it belongs. > > [/moderating] Well, good to know where the moderators stand on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/436 "2019-06-26T18:05:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This does not dispute anything I said. There have long been court cases about the “safe and sanitary” requirements of the Flores agreement, which I said multiple times. This is the first time the specific disputes about “safe and sanitary” conditions were about hygiene supplies, blankets, and the other specifics of this case. … This is false. The document I linked above (and [again here](https://www.aila.org/File/Related/14111359v.pdf)) shows that the original complaint, filed in 2015 and ruled on and appealed throughout 2016-2019, made the specific dispute about hygiene supplies: > [@](#): > > Recent detainees describe unsanitary conditions at the CBP facilities in the RGV Sector. > According to CBP standards, “[a]ll facilities or hold rooms used to hold detainees must be > regularly and professionally cleaned and sanitized”; detainees “must be provided with basic > personal hygiene items, consistent with short term detention and safety and security needs”; > “[d]etainees using the restroom will have access to toiletry items, such as toilet paper and > sanitary napkins,” and, whenever “operationally feasible,” soap; and minors would be provided > with clean bedding. TEDS Manual §§ 4.6, 4.11, 4.12. Moreover, CBP agents would enable > detainees to shower where they are available, “perform bodily functions, and change clothing > without being viewed by staff of the opposite gender . . . .” Id. § 4.6. > > There is an apparent disconnect between the CBP’s standards and class members’ > experiences, all of whom describe unsanitary conditions with respect to the holding cells and > bathroom facilities, and lack of privacy while using the restroom, access to clean bedding, and > access to hygiene products (i.e., toothbrushes, soap, towels). See, e.g., Declaration of Celina S. > (“Celina S. Decl.”) ¶ 8 (“There was an open toilet in the room [of 50 people] with no toilet seat > for everyone to use. Everyone could see if we were using the toilet.”) [Doc. # 202-1 at 77]; > Karina V. Depo. at 25–27 (describing having to sleep on the holding room’s concrete floor, > which was “dirty” with “soil from outside,” having no access to a sink to wash hands, and being > given one aluminum sheet to share with her son during sleep) [Doc. # 287-4]; Mensing Decl., > Ex. O, Declaration of Ritza M. ¶ 8 (“In the bathroom there was no soap to wash my hands or > space to shower.”) [Doc. # 342-5]; id. ¶ 5 (describing having to stay in wet clothes (from > crossing through river) during entire stay at the CBP facility); Declaration of Yessenia E. > (“Yessenia E. Decl.”) ¶ 6 (no soap, no brush, no change of clothes, no pillows or blankets, and > no toothbrushes for three days) [Doc. # 202-1 at 74]. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/437 "2019-06-26T18:05:42Z")
I favor the free movement of people as long as private property rights are maintained. IOW I am largely an open-borders libertarian. I think that the migrants should be free to travel to and fro as long as they are not intruding upon property without explicit or implicit permission. It appears the govt is rounding up economic refugees and holding them. It also appears that the migrants should know what lies on the other side and still willingly pass into the territory the US govt dominates. This seems different than past concentration camps, but I will accept the definition offered earlier in the thread. That said, can you please tell me the difference between these concentration camps and your classic refugee camp? Are the migrants permitted to leave and go back from where they came from if they so choose? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/438 "2019-06-26T18:08:51Z")
The definition offered earlier says nothing about the conditions of the camp. If this is the case, Obama also operated this system of concentration camps regardless of whether he gave them Colgate or Bob Barker toiletries. I’m glad I never supported a president who operates concentration camps. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/439 "2019-06-26T18:13:05Z")
Same question to you, **Will** : Even if everything you say is the truth/whole/nothing but, is this Obama’s problem to fix, or Trump’s? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/440 "2019-06-26T18:23:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > For some, it’s obvious that the whole point is NOT to fix any problem, but rather to ASSIGN BLAME. I think agreeing on some basic facts, like the fact that this same sort of “horrendous abuse” of immigrants (like not having toothpaste fast enough) went on during the Obama administration, could go a long ways towards toning down the hyperbolic language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=23)