# What Effect Will Trump's Concentration Camps have on his reelection campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738 "2019-06-19T12:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/441 "2019-06-26T18:25:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Same question to you, **Will** : Even if everything you say is the truth/whole/nothing but, is this Obama’s problem to fix, or Trump’s? Which problem, I see many? 1. Immigration law is not based on private property. 2. Refugees and other migrants are coming to the US despite poor immigration law. 3. Poor camp conditions. 4. Refugees and other migrants are coming to the US despite poor camp conditions. 5. Anti-migrant politics is popular in the US. Trump and Bernie believe open borders to be a Koch brothers conspiracy and they have a large following. Trump has some influence over 3, and a tiny bit over 1, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/442 "2019-06-26T18:27:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think agreeing on some basic facts, like the fact that this same sort of “horrendous abuse” of immigrants (like not having toothpaste fast enough) went on during the Obama administration, could go a long ways towards toning down the hyperbolic language. Is “hyperbolic language” the new " inflammatory rhetoric"? Can you show us on this doll where the words touched you? I’m sorry the words upset you so, while the horrendous conditions that these children are forced to live in is merely something that you choose to blame on others. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/443 "2019-06-26T18:31:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is false. The document I linked above (and [again here](https://www.aila.org/File/Related/14111359v.pdf)) shows that the original complaint, filed in 2015 and ruled on and appealed throughout 2016-2019, made the specific dispute about hygiene supplies: The portions you quote specifically refer to (recent!) detainees’ reports in 2017, not 2015. Notice the heading date on that file – June of 2017. Notice that any time they talk about past events, they qualify it with “On X date”. They did not do that for the portions you quoted. You are spreading (and apparently relying on) false information. Once again: > [@](#): > > In 2017, during the Trump administration, she found that CBP failed to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and that it deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights. Gee also found that CBP’s obligation to provide “safe and sanitary” conditions included providing soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes. Only under Trump did CBP “fail to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and… deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights”, and did not provide “soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes”. These were new complaints under the Trump administration. And the Trump administration is the only one that advocated for purposefully harming children for deterrent purposes. This is Trump administration policy and execution. Obama is not to blame for the things the Trump administration allowed to occur. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/444 "2019-06-26T18:34:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Which problem, I see many? > … > 3) Poor camp conditions. > … > > 1. Anti-migrant politics is popular in the US. Trump and Bernie believe open borders to be a Koch brothers conspiracy and they have a large following. > > Trump has some influence over 3, and a tiny bit over 1, but that’s about it. The President only has “some influence” over camp conditions, and use, and policies that separate families? Not that it’s _his fucking policy_? And the anti-migrant policies you correctly note are at the wheel are not in any way the result of _his own rhetoric and actions_? Okay then. You did answer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/445 "2019-06-26T18:34:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is “hyperbolic language” the new " inflammatory rhetoric"? > > Can you show us on this doll where the words touched you? I’m sorry the words upset you so, while the horrendous conditions that these children are forced to live in is merely something that you choose to blame on others. He’s also spreading false assertions – these specific concerns about hygiene supplies, blankets, and such, are unique to the Trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/446 "2019-06-26T18:36:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think agreeing on some basic facts, like the fact that this same sort of “horrendous abuse” of immigrants (like not having toothpaste fast enough) went on during the Obama administration, could go a long ways towards toning down the hyperbolic language. The language isn’t hyperbolic, if anything it’s toned down out of sheer breathlessness. _It’s a description of reality_. And if it doesn’t horrify you, the problem is with you. But okay, let’s say this is all Obama’s fault, even the separation of mothers and babies. Who’s problem is it to fix, and how? ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/447 "2019-06-26T18:36:54Z")
For people who want _facts_, Dara Lind at Vox has [an explainer](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/25/18715725/children-border-detention-kids-cages-immigration). She 1) emphasizes how these problems predate the Trump administration and 2) points out how we’re in _sui generis_ territory right now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/448 "2019-06-26T18:39:55Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > For people who want _facts_, Dara Lind at Vox has [an explainer](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/25/18715725/children-border-detention-kids-cages-immigration). She 1) emphasizes how these problems predate the Trump administration and 2) points out how we’re in _sui generis_ territory right now. Poor conditions have been around for a long time… and the Trump administration has made them worse, presumably because they are on record as putting value on harming migrant children for deterrent purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/449 "2019-06-26T18:52:33Z")
Family separation is a Trump idea. And it is done in order to make conditions horrible in the concentration camps, and to show asylum seekers that the United States is a horrible place so they don’t come. [This is a Trump policy.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-trump/trump-says-family-separations-deter-illegal-immigration-idUSKCN1MO00C) > [@](#): > > some Trump administration officials have said the policy, under which some 2,600 children were separated from their parents, was needed to secure the border and deter illegal immigration. > Trump seemed to support that argument on Saturday. > > “If they feel there will be separation, they don’t come,” he said of migrants during comments to reporters at the White House. > > Trump also claimed, without providing evidence, that immigrants were “grabbing children and they’re using children to come in to our country in many cases.” Now, if the Trump policy is to make it clear that asylum seekers will be treated horribly, why on earth would Trump and his officials want to treat these children well in the concentration camps? That would defeat the WHOLE PURPOSE of the exercise, which is to deter asylum seekers by showing them how horrible it is here. Oh, and sorry in advance for the hyperbolic language and the inflammatory rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/450 "2019-06-26T18:55:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The portions you quote specifically refer to (recent!) detainees’ reports in 2017, not 2015. Notice the heading date on that file – June of 2017. Notice that any time they talk about past events, they qualify it with “On X date”. They did not do that for the portions you quoted. You are spreading (and apparently relying on) false information. > > Once again: > > Only under Trump did CBP “fail to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and… deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights”, and did not provide “soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes”. > > These were new complaints under the Trump administration. And the Trump administration is the only one that advocated for purposefully harming children for deterrent purposes. > > This is Trump administration policy and execution. Obama is not to blame for the things the Trump administration allowed to occur. You are wrong and what you are saying is false. [Here is a plaintiff filing](https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/IM-CA-0002-0039.pdf) in the case from December 2016 (filed 12/12/16), when Obama was still President. It says: > [@](#): > > “I was held at la perrera for two days. During > this time, we were only given burritos, an > apple, and a bag of chips to eat for breakfast, > lunch, and dinner. We were not given the > chance to shower or toothbrushes and > toothpaste to brush our teeth.” > [Declaration of Zulma Mxxxxxxx xxxxxxx > > … > > **Class members in CBP > facilities for 12-72 hours are > not provided showers, soap, > toothbrushes or towels.** > > … > > (Doc. No. 201-5, Ex. 27): > “For three days we were given no soap to > wash, no toothbrushes to brush our teeth, no > paper towels to dry our hands when we > washed our hands, nothing to brush our hair, > no change of underwear or clothes, no pillows > or blankets and no beds to sleep in. We had to > try to sleep in the freezing cold cell on the > concrete floor. We were exhausted physically > and emotionally.” Doc. No. 201-5 at 846, > Dec. of Yessenia Exxxxxxxx xxxxxxx Ex. 27 Again, all of this is in the court records prior to the start of President Trump’s administration. You are simply wrong on this point. The complaints about toothpaste and soap preceded President Trump. They originated during the Obama administration. ETA: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He’s also spreading false assertions – these specific concerns about hygiene supplies, blankets, and such, are unique to the Trump administration. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/451 "2019-06-26T19:03:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … But okay, let’s say this is all Obama’s fault, even the separation of mothers and babies. Who’s problem is it to fix, and how? It’s the government’s job to fix it. Much of that falls on the executive branch, currently led by President Trump, but Congress certainly has a role to play as well (in providing adequate funding for border security and sufficient capacity at detention facilities to alleviate over-crowding). Do we agree on at least this point? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/452 "2019-06-26T19:04:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You are wrong and what you are saying is false. [Here is a plaintiff filing](https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/IM-CA-0002-0039.pdf) in the case from December 2016 (filed 12/12/16), when Obama was still President. It says: > > Again, all of this is in the court records prior to the start of President Trump’s administration. You are simply wrong on this point. The complaints about toothpaste and soap preceded President Trump. They originated during the Obama administration. > > ETA: > > You’re wrong. You just provided a new cite! Thank you for the new information, which actually does justify a tiny bit of your attempt to shift blame. Your past cites did not do so, but this one does. Good for you! Yes, the Obama administration does deserve some of the blame – they did not do enough to ensure these facilities were safe and sanitary. Shame on them. However, the Obama administration never argued these hygiene supplies were unnecessary; the Obama administration never argued that harming migrant children was necessary for deterrent purposes; and the Obama administration did not routinely use dehumanizing rhetoric about migrants. The Trump administration has done all those things, and therefore it’s far more reasonable to presume the deterioration of conditions in these facilities is purposeful. Hopefully you’ll join us in our horror at the even worse conditions for these children in the present, and resolve to fight against the Trump administration’s continued efforts to resist improving their conditions because they find value in harming migrant children. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/453 "2019-06-26T19:13:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s the government’s job to fix it. Much of that falls on the executive branch, currently led by President Trump, but Congress certainly has a role to play as well (in providing adequate funding for border security and sufficient capacity at detention facilities to alleviate over-crowding). Do we agree on at least this point? We agree it’s Trump’s problem, not that he sees it as one. He \*does \*have the fucking money. Can you agree to stop trying to deflect reponsibility? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/454 "2019-06-26T19:38:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … He \*does \*have the fucking money. … How did you reach this conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/455 "2019-06-26T19:39:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You just provided a new cite! Thank you for the new information, which actually does justify a tiny bit of your attempt to shift blame. Your past cites did not do so, but this one does. Good for you! > > Yes, the Obama administration does deserve some of the blame – they did not do enough to ensure these facilities were safe and sanitary. Shame on them. … This is probably the closest you’ll get to admitting that you were wrong and apologizing for incorrectly claiming I was “spreading false assertions”, so I guess I’ll take it. My past cites all referenced the same underlying complaint about lack of hygiene items, etc. during the Obama administration. That you were unable to grasp that until now is no one’s fault but your own. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/456 "2019-06-26T19:42:05Z")
I guess that means you won’t join us in our horror at the even worse conditions for these children in the present, and resolve to fight against the Trump administration’s continued efforts to resist improving their conditions because they find value in harming migrant children. How sad. But the Trump administration thanks you in your tacit support for their advocacy of harming migrant children for deterrent purposes. I did appreciate the new cites, though. It was good to see your posts finally matching, even just a tiny bit, the cites you were quoting. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/457 "2019-06-26T19:44:07Z")
I think that it’s a positive, baby step forward for Republicans who concede that there are horrendous conditions in these camps, even if they have to get there by blaming Obama. :rolleyes: So next- what are we gonna do about it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/458 "2019-06-26T19:44:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > How did you reach this conclusion? He has the money to pay for his wall on an emergency basis, doesn’t he? You do remember that, don’t you? Just divert some of that to soap and bedding. That doesn’t require Congressional appropriation. And he doesn’t need a cent to stop taking babies away from mothers. Now, about you ending your attempts at deflecting blame … gonna work on that for us? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/459 "2019-06-26T19:45:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think that it’s a positive, baby step forward for Republicans who concede that there are horrendous conditions in these camps, even if they have to get there by blaming Obama. :rolleyes: So next- what are we gonna do about it? For the Trumpers, absolutely nothing, except continue to blame Democrats. Even when the Democrats pass bills that provide funding explicitly for improving these conditions. I suspect it’s because of the value they place on harming migrant children. If you think harming migrant children is good policy, even as you recognize it’s not popular policy, you’re going to do anything you possibly can to shift blame and deflect attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738/460 "2019-06-26T19:47:01Z")
> [@Krark](#): > > Every single person who believes otherwise deserves to die in a fire. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. You’re new (based on number of posts) so I recommend you familiarize yourself with the rules of the [board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=864546)and of the [forum](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818214). [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-effect-will-trumps-concentration-camps-have-on-his-reelection-campaign/835738.md?page=24)