# What else don't we know - mysterious objects **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570 "2024-01-24T00:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/41 "2024-01-26T17:53:29Z")
Ask @Archimedes. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/42 "2024-01-26T17:53:58Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Could we tell if a gold item is solid gold or electroplated? [Archimedes could easily tell.](https://www.britannica.com/question/What-led-to-Archimedes-discovering-his-principle) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/43 "2024-01-26T17:55:50Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > It certainly looks like a utilitarian device, and as a practical matter would be almost useless for any other purpose. Well, wrapping a scroll around a metal rod then placing it inside a metal tube inside a jar would help to preserve the scroll for a relatively long time, so long as the jar and contents were kept dry. After a few hundred years some rot or corrosion would probably set in, but you’d be okay for a few lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/44 "2024-01-26T17:57:12Z")
As I understand it, Archimedes method tells the difference between pure gold and gold alloy. Can it tell the difference between an alloy, and an electroplated item? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/45 "2024-01-26T17:58:31Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Can it tell the difference between an alloy, and an electroplated item? Yes. It’s measuring the volume vs the weight of an item, or it’s density. Gold has a high density. Other metals not so much. An electroplated metal item would have a lower density than pure gold. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/46 "2024-01-26T18:08:11Z")
OK here’s one, sort of. Topical maybe with the latest “news”. Supposedly, so the story goes, there was a UFO that crashed in the 1890s, somewhere down in Texas, and (I guess) there was a local newspaper report about it, that alien bodies were found. The town folk gave the unfortunate traveller’s a “Christian burial” at the local cemetery. This is a commonly cited “evidence” by UFO ologists. So it would be surprising if the supposed alien bodies have not been exhumed by somebody, if the story is true it would be interesting to know what it really was that they thought was an alien spacecraft in the 19th century. Another “interesting” tale that sounded intriguing, I think it was mentioned on a particular tour of a large estate or castle, there was large wooden trunk from medieval times that had a warning “To be opened only if the castle is in great danger” which I cannot believe anybody would leave unopened. It’s a great story though. “Greek Fire” is something early writers mentioned, but based on the descriptions and characteristics nobody is quite sure what it was actually made up of. In more recent examples, archaeologists have uncovered a couple paddle wheel steamers that sank in the Missouri, bound for Great Falls or wherever, full of trade goods and supplies. There are a fair number of gee-gaws and thingamawhatsits - obviously some sort of tool to do … something. But there’s nobody left alive who remembers. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/47 "2024-01-26T18:17:19Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Yes. It’s measuring the volume vs the weight of an item, or it’s density. Okay, I don’t know this science stuff. But suppose you had two items, identical in appearance. One is made from an alloy of 90% lead and 10% gold. One is a 90% lead core, with a 10% shell of gold. Identical quantities of lead and gold in both items, just differently distributed. Wouldn’t they have the same volume and the same weight, and the same ratio between them? Could Archimedes tell the difference between them? Assume they are both the same colour. And a spherical cow. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/48 "2024-01-26T18:20:07Z")
Electroplating was also done to items made of wood, bone, and stone. You name it. Hell they probably made those tacky plated roses and Susan B. Anthony dollars with it too. The fact there weren’t any gold or silver or copper plated artifacts found or associated with what may be an electric cell doesn’t bother me, as far as that goes. Everything ends up in the melting pot sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/49 "2024-01-26T18:21:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We do know it was long before the era of the druids. Likely a sacred and holy place. Some astronomical alignments, but not an ancient observatory. Well, as the song says “No one knows who they were, or what they were doing” We also know that Stonehenge is “Where the demons dwell” and “Where the banshees live and they do live well” ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/50 "2024-01-26T18:25:36Z")
No. This is why a dependable, easy method of determining authenticity was kind of a big deal. Non destructive analysis, as it were. Otherwise you need to do assay, which is a pain. Gold is almost impossible to fake, one of the key attributes described to Money. But if you have a Big Ass Bar of it, there is a possibility of a fake. There are more modern ways to test, but Archimedes description is still a valid test, or one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/51 "2024-01-26T18:31:21Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > No. This is why a dependable, easy method of determining authenticity was kind of a big deal. Non destructive analysis, as it were. Otherwise you need to do assay, which is a pain. Gold is almost impossible to fake, one of the key attributes described to Money. But if you have a Big Ass Bar of it, there is a possibility of a fake. There are more modern ways to test, but Archimedes description is still a valid test, or one of them In any event the question put to Archimedes was whether the goldsmith had pocketed some of the gold he was given and made up the difference with base metal. The same total weight with some of the gold replaced by less dense metal would be larger; what Archimedes really did was hit upon a precise way of measuring an irregularly shaped object’s volume. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/52 "2024-01-26T18:34:49Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > One is made from an alloy of 90% lead and 10% gold. The typical thickness of electroplating usually ranges from **0.0001 inch to 0.020 inch** No where near 10%. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/53 "2024-01-26T18:38:59Z")
Right - without having to saw it open and take a look see? Even today, when someone buys a Big Ass Gold Bar, they don’t ordinarily leave the commodities exchange. A bar gets assayed, has a serial number, and is officially accepted. The owner can “take delivery” but in order for it to be accepted onto the exchange again it would need to be assayed all over again. They don’t want to take too many chances. Tungsten is hard to work with, but the scammers have figured out how to make bars that are very convincing. Maybe it is sintered tungsten, with a .999 good coating. Years ago, seems to me it was Lebanon maybe, had a cottage industry that was turning out numismatic fakes of certain gold coins. They were careful to use the proper gold & copper alloy of genuine coins, they were strictly made for the collector market added value, the gold content was exactly the same. Shopkeepers had small scales, that were precisely made of a certain size, and balance. A counterfeit or fake gold coin could either be the right size, or the right weight, though not both. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/54 "2024-01-26T18:40:10Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Electroplating was also done to items made of wood, bone, and stone Non-conductive substrates such as plastic, bone wood, or glass cannot be electroplated unless first made conductive. This is done by coating the non-conductive substrate in a layer of conductive paint or spray - which we also have no evidence that they had. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/55 "2024-01-26T18:42:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > which we also have no evidence that they had. Who is “they”? Electroplating was common in the ancient world. What evidence is lacking? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/56 "2024-01-26T18:55:49Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Electroplating was common in the ancient world. Other than the [debunked evidence of electroplating in the ancient world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroplating#History) what other examples can you provide? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/57 "2024-01-26T18:57:20Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Who is “they”? “They” are the people who lived in Baghdad 2000 years ago. I was addressing your claim that wood and bone can be electroplated. It can’t - unless you first spray it with a layer of conductive paint. We have no evidence that the people of Baghdad (in roughly 250 BCE to CE 250) had conductive paint or a sprayer to apply it with. All that is aside from the fact that we don’t have evidence that ‘they’ produced electroplated items in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/58 "2024-01-26T19:00:22Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > OK here’s one, sort of. Topical maybe with the latest “news”. Supposedly, so the story goes, there was a UFO that crashed in the 1890s, somewhere down in Texas, and (I guess) there was a local newspaper report about it, that alien bodies were found. The town folk gave the unfortunate traveller’s a “Christian burial” at the local cemetery. This is a commonly cited “evidence” by UFO ologists. So it would be surprising if the supposed alien bodies have not been exhumed by somebody, if the story is true it would be interesting to know what it really was that they thought was an alien spacecraft in the 19th century. In the spirit of the Dope, we might examine this one as well. The ‘alien grave’ is in Aurora, Texas, and has a Wikipedia page about it. > **[Aurora, Texas, UFO incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident)** > > The Aurora, Texas, UFO incident reportedly occurred on April 17, 1897, when, according to locals, a UFO crashed on a farm near Aurora, Texas. The incident (similar to the more famous Roswell UFO incident 50 years later) is claimed to have resulted in a fatality of the pilot. The pilot was "not of this world" and was said to be an alien. The pilot was buried at the Aurora cemetery. A stone was placed as a marker for the grave, but has since been removed. > On April 19, 1897, an article in the Dall... > [@](#): > > The hoax theory is primarily based on a 1980 _[Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_(magazine))_ magazine interview with Etta Pegues, an 86 year old Aurora resident who claimed that Haydon had fabricated the entire story, stating that Haydon “wrote it as a joke and to bring interest to Aurora. The railroad bypassed us, and the town was dying.”[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident#cite_note-time1-6) Pegues further claimed that Judge Proctor never operated a windmill on his property, a statement later refuted as part of the _[UFO Hunters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_Hunters)_ episode, which found the base of a wooden water pump tower constructed around the well.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_] Paranormal researcher Jerry Drake on the April 12, 2020 episode of the Monster Talk live podcast challenged that finding, noting the well was clearly a bucket well of modern construction (estimated to be built sometimes after 1940) and not a well designed for use with a windmill.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_] So probably a hoax. Interesting that Haydon should choose a Martian as the subject of a hoax, so soon after the serialisation of War of the Worlds began. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/59 "2024-01-26T20:26:19Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > n more recent examples, archaeologists have uncovered a couple paddle wheel steamers that sank in the Missouri, bound for Great Falls or wherever, full of trade goods and supplies. There are a fair number of gee-gaws and thingamawhatsits - obviously some sort of tool to do … something. But there’s nobody left alive who remembers. [Are referring to this?](https://www.1856.com/arabia-story#:~:text=On%20September%205%2C%201856%2C%20just,again%20for%20over%20130%20years.) If so, I’m not understanding the mystery. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570/60 "2024-01-26T20:57:25Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Another “interesting” tale that sounded intriguing, I think it was mentioned on a particular tour of a large estate or castle, there was large wooden trunk from medieval times that had a warning “To be opened only if the castle is in great danger” which I cannot believe anybody would leave unopened. It’s a great story though. A bit vague, and I wonder if you have more details. There’s a [‘sealed chest’ legend](https://www.facebook.com/HiddenOswestry/posts/the-curse-of-whittington-castlethe-oswestry-area-is-steeped-in-myth-and-legend-o/1441546409285018/) associated with Whittington Castle on the Welsh Marches, but that chest has been taken out the castle to an ‘unknown location’. Curiously, Whittington Castle is also associated with the ‘Marian Chalice’, which may also be the Holy Grail. Or it may not. > **[Whittington Castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whittington_Castle)** > > Whittington Castle is a castle in northern Shropshire, England, owned and managed by the Whittington Castle Preservation Fund. The castle was originally a motte-and-bailey castle, but this was replaced in the 13th century by one with buildings around a courtyard whose exterior wall was the curtain wall of the inner bailey. As a castle of the Welsh Marches, it was built on the border of Wales and England very close to the historic fort of Old Oswestry. > Whittington Castle resides on a 12-acre ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-else-dont-we-know-mysterious-objects/996570.md?page=4)