# What Ended The Era of the Armored Knight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379 "2003-09-08T21:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/41 "2003-09-10T07:06:52Z")
The bow was in service in the English army from 1252 until it was retired in 1595, a total of 343 years which aint bad for a bit of wood, some feathers and a length of string. Remember also that whilst the archers would “shower” the enemy with arrows there were snipers among them whose job it was to bring down nobles/commanders and if possible the opposing king/prince or whatever. Once he was down the battle was as good as won ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/42 "2003-09-10T08:10:38Z")
I can sum it up in one word: Rust! 😃 - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/43 "2003-09-10T12:43:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > \*\* > And when I used to go to the range with my friend I could shoot an 80 pound compound 30 times in half an hour, and 120 pound 10 times or so with muscles untrained for it. And I know lot’s of guys a hell of lot stronger than me. I have no idea what the conversion between a longbow and a compound bow is, or what the draw of the ren faire bow was. > > \*\* Are you serious? Do you know for a fact they were 120 lbs pull composite bows? I don’t know much about modern archery, but I’m rather sure bows that are 70+ lbs are very expensive and are usually only specially made to order. Did someone you know at the fair allow you to use their bow? Or was it a bow that had there for spectator’s to try? If so I doubt very much they would have such a high pull on the bow for just anyone to use. It could be dangerous. Most people (me included!) could not pull back that string properly. Visitors would be liable to hurt themselves or other’s nearby. Anyone who knows modern bows (and ancient ones!) can you give us a comparison between a modern composite bow and a medieval 120+ lbs pull war longbow? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/44 "2003-09-10T13:05:32Z")
Hmm I found some more info on the training: > **[England's Medieval Festival - See History come to Life!](http://www.englandsmedievalfestival.com)** > > England's Medieval Festival - See History come to Life! > [@](#): > > Naturally to achieve a high degree of precision and professionalism with a weapon such as the longbow requires a great deal of practise. Therefore it is though wonder that a great emphasis on training began form the tender age of seven. Further more to achieve a high degree of proficiency various laws were passed concerning the compulsory ownership of longbows for citizens in certain ‘wage bands’. It was also mandatory to practise with the bow on Sundays after church. And… > [@](#): > > One must bear in mind that in those days professional soldiers were few and far between and that these laws were intended for the common citizen who in time of was would be required for military service. So no wonder that the authorities constantly highlighted the important of rigorous training with the longbow. This fact is clearly demonstrated by anecdotal evidence from the time \*\*which stated that a man who could not draw and discharge 12 well aimed arrows in a minute aiming at a target 240 yards away was lightly esteemed, even if he only missed once. \*\* Such a degree of skill now seems incredible. (bolding mine). Quite impressive. I would imagine only olympic caliber archers of modern times could pull such a feat. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/45 "2003-09-10T13:07:43Z")
Anybody know how long it took to make a suit of plate armor? I assume that it was all hand-hammered, and making the wooden forms must have beena long process. Anyway, I saw a suit of late-medieval armor-the workmanship is fantastic! Fully articulated gloves, and knee joints that move very well. Actually, late medieval armor was pretty light (compared to chain mail)-wearing chain mail must have been horrible (you had to wear leather garments under the chain mail, because itwould chafe and tear your shin…of course, nowthe gals have chain mailbikinis! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/46 "2003-09-10T15:25:45Z")
**FTG** I have to disagree that pikemen were poorly armed and poorly trained. Yes, pikes are inexpensive weapons, especially compared to armored knights. But a rabble of poorly trained pikemen would be cut to ribbons by heavy cavalry. Pikemen can ONLY work as a unit…a single pikeman is pretty much useless. Pikes have to be in formation, you have to depend on the men to your left and right to protect you, since all you can do is attack straight ahead. Pikemen have to be trained, they must know how to march in formation, they have to have esprit de corp, or they are worthless. Effective pikemen have to have almost unbelievable discipline to hold against cavalry charges, and to advance under fire…because if the formation breaks, everyone would be slaughtered. But if the formation holds, pikemen were invulnerable. Which is why you can’t just pull the serfs off the fields, hand them a pike, and send them on their way…they’d be useless, and when they broke they’d cause panic in other units. Pikemen were the counter to heavy infantry, but archers are the counter to pikemen. And so we have the development of pike formations protecting muskets from cavalry, and muskets protecting pikes from ranged fire. This lasted until the development of bayonets, which combined the pike and musket into one weapon. And of course, pikemen were ultimately countered with mobile artillery which could smash the densely packed formations that pikes require. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379/47 "2003-09-10T15:33:39Z")
It would seem there are a few questions/misunderstandings about the differences of the bows: compound, composite and long. I would like to get on the “same page” as everyone else… I understand basic histories of the weapons (and physics) but I am not sure I have the whole picture. Someone tell me if I got this right: - The longbow was made as such to gain spring power over its predeccors, but was very difficult to draw - the resistance increases as one draws back. Furthermore, with such a mechanism, the arrow slows down as it reaches the shaft (as energy is transfered back into the shaft). Lots of strength is needed to use a high-end model. - The composite bow (a la Mongol) was recurved at the ends. This shortened the “working length” of the bow and made it easier to use from a pony (I’m not sure if this is a fortuitous coincidence or intentful by design). This design also transfered the power back _into_ the string - the arrow speeds up as the string reaches the shaft. Lighter pull, faster arrow. (Was this design easier to hold drawn?) - Modern compound bows utilize pulleys to dissipate the energy needed to draw them. They also transfer the energy back into the arrow as the string reaches the shaft. Lighter pull, faster arrow, again. Is this basically it? Critiques anticipated… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ended-the-era-of-the-armored-knight/200379.md?page=2)