# What English words and rules of grammar are most confusing for people learning ESL? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835 "2011-02-10T01:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/81 "2011-02-17T08:54:06Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I wouldn’t use the terms ‘soft’ and ‘hard’ when describing letters, because they seem to describe a variety of things. I’d use ‘voiced’ and ‘unvoiced’, or whatever they are actually describing. But that requires a knowledge of phonetics. A ridiculous amount of people don’t even know basic grammar; phonetics? Yeah rite. In this case, the “soft” and “hard” is a direct translation from Spanish, from how we were taught how to tell whether something had to be spelled with a double or single r or with a j, g or gu. I can assure you that 4yo Spaniards don’t know the first thing about phonetics, but they know which member of a close phonetic pair is “stronger” or “harder” than the other one. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/82 "2011-02-17T09:59:10Z")
For Serbian speakers it is definitely the use of indefinite and definite articles (a/an/the/or nothing). I have yet to meet someone around here who has actually mastered it. The only people who have a feel for it are those who lived abroad in English-speaking countries. Also spelling is a tough one, as well as pronouncing the “th” sound. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/83 "2011-02-17T10:37:15Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I think it depends on what their mother tongue is. For Japanese, most people have a lot of trouble with the English “the/a” and pluralization of nouns which then require verb agreement. > > e.g. A camera has a button vs. The cameras have buttons. > > IMHE, no matter how many years Japanese translators have been working they still mess that up all the time. I second this, regarding Chinese students (Mandarin speakers). After some intensive learning the problem areas: articles and; agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/84 "2011-02-17T10:45:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > ‘The French absurdist films of the 1960s’ and ‘French absurdist films of the 1960s’?" The former is a subordinate clause. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/85 "2011-02-17T11:26:42Z")
Having lived in Sweden for eleven years now, I’ve heard a lot of English from a lot of Swedes. Time and time again the same errors appear, making me think that for some reason Swedes in general have problems there. There are two I probably hear most though, one of which I understand and one just seems bizarre. Teach/learn. Swedish doesn’t really make this distinction. They both use the same verb “lära” but if you add a particle to it “sig” (which changes depending on who: sig, dig, er etc) it changes from “teach” to “learn” (kind of, simplifying a bit there). So the word for “teach” sounds pretty much like “learn” and then you have to mess with it to actually get “learn”. I can understand the confusion. It doesn’t help that English speakers will jokily use phrases like “that’ll learn ya” as well. Months. Swedish uses “månad” for “month” and “månader” for “months”. They have a plural form. Yet, for some reason, an insane amount of Swedes just use the singular form in English. I just don’t understand it. “The project will take three month”. Perhaps it is the difficulty of pronouncing the “s” after the “the” sound. I don’t know. Just thought of another one. House/Building. Swedes use “hus” to mean “building” and “villa” to mean a “house”. Thus they use “house” to mean “building” when speaking English as “hus” sounds like “house”. Thus I apparently work in a house even though I am sitting on the eleventh floor. I feel like hugging Swedes that use the word “building”. So there you go, the three most common mistakes made by Swedes when speaking English, as brought to you by amanset. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/86 "2011-02-17T11:37:26Z")
An ESL student once asked me about three questions he’d missed. My impression was he thought the test was wrong, and I could hardly blame him. The only one remember was that he was asked to interpret: A: “Isn’t she pretty?” B: “Isn’t she!” Q: Do A and B think she’s pretty? > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Plus saying things like “I was boring” when they mean “I was bored.” Even my higher level students often make that mistake. Willie Mays is a native speaker and famously made this error during an interview as a rookie. “Am I an exciting player? No, I just do my job and let the fans get exciting.” ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/87 "2011-02-17T11:50:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Willie Mays is a native speaker and famously made this error during an interview as a rookie. “Am I an exciting player? No, I just do my job and let the fans get exciting.” I did it on the phone to a telemarketer. It went kind of like this: Her: Hej! Jag ringer från … (Hi! I’m calling from …). Me: Förlåt. Jag är inte intressant. (Sorry. I am not interesting). \ Her: Va? (What?) Intressant/Intresserad. There’s a fine line. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/88 "2011-02-17T11:56:26Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Teach/learn. > > Swedish doesn’t really make this distinction. They both use the same verb “lära” but if you add a particle to it “sig” (which changes depending on who: sig, dig, er etc) it changes from “teach” to “learn” (kind of, simplifying a bit there). So the word for “teach” sounds pretty much like “learn” and then you have to mess with it to actually get “learn”. I can understand the confusion. It doesn’t help that English speakers will jokily use phrases like “that’ll learn ya” as well.. Speakers from certain dialects don’t do it jokingly at all, the Jamaicans I knew always did, and did it in all seriousness. I don’t know which dialects do it, though, or even if it’s still done in Jamaica nowadays (my Jamaican acquaintances had all left the island in the 60s and 70s). ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/89 "2011-02-17T14:44:46Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Wow first of all thanks for this thread. > > here in Philippines the commonest mistake I hear is people mixing up he and she. Dunno maybe the word is the same in Tagalog. (Siya saya?) Oh man, I’ve worked with many, many Filipinos and they did this _all the time!_ It occasionally got pretty confusing. I assumed the same thing, that maybe the pronouns in Tagalog are such that they don’t make the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/90 "2011-02-17T16:31:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > An ESL student once asked me about three questions he’d missed. My impression was he thought the test was wrong, and I could hardly blame him. The only one remember was that he was asked to interpret: > A: “Isn’t she pretty?” > B: “Isn’t she!” > Q: Do A and B think she’s pretty? What was the correct answer? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/91 "2011-02-17T17:02:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What was the correct answer? Obviously “yes,” but if the test was administered in print only, the student had a point, since that would have been poorly contextualized. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/92 "2011-02-17T17:05:10Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But that requires a knowledge of phonetics. A ridiculous amount of people don’t even know basic grammar; phonetics? Yeah rite. This is the SDMB. We assume that people have the capacity to Google or Wiki terms they’re not familiar with (or just ask). > [@treis](#): > > What was the correct answer? Yes, they did think she was attractive. ETA: > [@guizot](#): > > Obviously “yes,” but if the test was administered in print only, the student had a point, since that would have been poorly contextualized. I disagree. No native speaker of English would be confused by this. Granted, it’s not how people tend to talk in 2011, but its meaning is unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/93 "2011-02-17T17:09:05Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What was the correct answer? I confess to have forgotten the exact question (it was decades ago) and just took a (poor) shot at reconstructing it. But it was phrased to do a good job of testing whether ESL student understand that “Isn’t she!” sometimes has the idiomatic meaning “She is!” ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/94 "2011-02-17T17:14:05Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I don’t speak it, but I hear that Danish has terrible spelling. > > I’m sure that Russian has some kind of pronunciation rules, but damned if I can figure out what they are. Why is “o” pronounced sometimes as “o” and sometimes as “a” and sometimes as “oah”? Why is the “g”-sound sometimes pronounced as “v”? It is a mystery. The pronunciation of Russian vowels depends on which syllable in a word is stressed. So the vowel “o” is pronounced with its full value when it receives the stress in the word. If it appears in a syllable immediately preceding the stressed syllable, it is pronounced like “ah.” If it is further removed from or after the stressed syllable, it is pronounced like “uh.” So in a word like “moloko” you have the same vowel three times, but three different pronunciations: muh - lah - ko. That is just one example with one vowel, of course. But there are similar rules for each vowel. As for “v” being pronounced as “g,” that only happens in limited circumstances, such as the word for today (spelled as “segodnia” but pronounced as “sevodnia”) or in masculine/neuter genitive singular adjectives. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/95 "2011-02-17T17:21:20Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I disagree. No native speaker of English would be confused by this. Well, yeah, but the test wasn’t for native speakers. The functional nature of such language is inherently tied to intonation. To test it as a discrete item without audio is almost pointless. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/96 "2011-02-17T17:31:26Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Well, yeah, but the test wasn’t for native speakers. The functional nature of such language is inherently tied to intonation. To test it as a discrete item without audio is almost pointless. It is a test to measure their English ability. You need difficult questions such as that one to differentiate people at the top of the scale. I agree with the other posters that the meaning is unambiguous. What context can you add that would change the meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/97 "2011-02-17T17:32:11Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Well, yeah, but the test wasn’t for native speakers. The functional nature of such language is inherently tied to intonation. To test it as a discrete item without audio is almost pointless. 1.) It’s \*testing the fluency \*of the non-native speakers, which would be completely useless if all it did was lob easy “gimme” questions at them. 2.) The meaning is not tied to intonation. It’s perfectly clear from the structure of the sentences, including their punctuation. Compare: Isn’t she pretty? Isn’t she! Is she pretty? She isn’t. Isn’t she pretty? No, she isn’t. These are all very distinct exchanges to a native speaker of English, and their meaning is easily distinguished even when they’re written instead of spoken. 3.) The simple fact that no L1 English speaker would be confused by it while an L2 speaker was proves that it’s a good question for gauging fluency. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/98 "2011-02-17T17:51:21Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But that requires a knowledge of phonetics. A ridiculous amount of people don’t even know basic grammar; phonetics? Yeah rite. At the level we’re discussing in this thread (e.g. voiced/unvoiced distinctions, rough comparisons of sounds in different languages), phonetics is far simpler than grammar. Phonetics is, in a way, strictly rule-based. For example: if, during [exhalation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhalation), you tap the back of your tongue against your [soft palate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_palate) without vibrating your vocal cords, you will produce the phoneme /k/ (Spanish _caro_, English _car_) _regardless of what language you speak natively_. All the sounds of natural human speech can be described and rendered this way, giving second-language learners a way of accessing unfamiliar speech sounds in a precise manner. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/99 "2011-02-17T17:53:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > 2.) The meaning is not tied to intonation. It’s perfectly clear from the structure of the sentences, including their punctuation. Compare: > > Isn’t she pretty? > Isn’t she! A negative question (just as a tag question) can be a true question, an assertion, or seeking confirmation, depending on intonation. The designer of this test item needs to decide if the purpose of the item is functional, grammatical or about punctuation, because without more context, it’s muddled. I’ve seen (and rejected) many test items like this. This one probably had a good point, but often things like this are thrown in more for the amusement/interest of the teacher, rather than to actually assess competence. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835/100 "2011-02-17T19:31:10Z")
Just “Isn’t she pretty?” \*by itself \*would be ambiguous (e.g., “Marcie was rejected from the beauty pageant,” followed by “[But why,] isn’t she pretty?”). However, “Isn’t she pretty?” followed by “Isn’t she!” can pretty much only be interpreted one way by a native speaker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-english-words-and-rules-of-grammar-are-most-confusing-for-people-learning-esl/570835.md?page=6)