# What era of military flight-sim do you like and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707 "2013-10-08T18:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/1 "2013-10-08T18:47:16Z")
I imagine most people will say ‘World War Two’ but I live in hope… 😉 I have a bit of a long standing argument/running joke with a friend who likes WW1 era military flight-sims _(with second-world war a close…ummmm…second)_ wheras I was always more interested in more modern high-tech jet combat. In his words, “Missiles are for women and small children” and he considers radar and other technological aids to be cheating, removing from the ‘knights in the sky’ aspect of ‘whites of their eyes’ ‘staring down the barrels of your opponents guns’ single combat seen in the pre-radar/missile age of aerial combat. Personally I’m of the opinion that if you can see your opponent you’ve done something wrong. Seriously though, in a well done and reasonably accurate modern military simulator like Falcon 4: Allied Force I enjoy the whole electronic warfare environment, learning your aircrafts systems and how to use them, and trying to sneak past your opponents defences. I have had few game-playing moments of genuine fear like my radar-warning receiver lighting up with a Su-27 Flanker in search-mode while attempting low-level ingress to a target. I also think for people who don’t ‘get it’ aerial missile combat can seem boring when it really isn’t, making the decision to try and evade or engage your opponent, moving from long-range missiles, to short-range heatseekers to ‘knifefight in phone box’ cannon combat is something you don’t get in games set in earlier eras. Its like high-speed three-dimensional chess where you’re opponent is trying to kill you. I enjoy the ground-attack aspect of the games as well, I have had few gaming experiences as satisfying as cluster-bombing parked ranks of Soviet fighters and bombers parked up at the enemy airfields as in EF2000 _(you can’t become an Ace from destroying enemy planes on the ground can you?)_ Its just a pity I no longer have the spare time to give these type of simulators the attention they deserve. My £120 Saitek throttle and joystick are gathering dust in a corner _(actually they’re carefully packed away!)_ Its just a pity there have been no really good modern era air-combat sims since Allied Force, at least none that I’m aware of. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/2 "2013-10-08T19:36:36Z")
It depends on your definition of “good.” In the sense of high-fidelity sims like Falcon 4, not so much. There was a time when [Third Wire](http://www.thirdwire.com/) looked to be taking over the mantle of “halfway seriousish” survey sims from Janes, but I gather that they haven’t been able to get much traction. Their focus is, charmingly, somewhere between the 1960s and the 1980s, so you get a nice range of aircraft and technologies. I don’t know that I’d agree that there haven’t been any good modern-era air-combat games since F4. Eagle Dynamics’ (_Su-27 Flanker_) DCS series has taken over the study sim area, so near as I can tell. Air-to-air combat is essentially nonexistent, since their first airplane was the A-10C, but the ground attack part of that is scrupulously detailed and a rollicking good time. Anybody who has not nursed a Warthog back to base with half a wing hasn’t lived. (As far as the air-to-air side, Eagle Dynamics’ _Lock On_ is pretty good, though the flight model is definitely showing its age. There is, however, an F/A-18C in the works I think, and a third-party dev has been making good progress on a MiG-21) World War II seems to be the go-to answer; a WWII module for DCS came in three days ago [60%](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944) over their target goal. But I’m with you; I like modern air combat. There’s a certain mindset and a certain patience to it — less flashy aerobatics, yes, but to my way of thinking it has a much more tactical feel. It’s almost like a puzzle game, and rewarding in that way. Or it may just have been growing up on Tom Clancy and Stephen Coonts that did it, and with a different library I might’ve fallen for the P-47 instead of the A-6. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/3 "2013-10-08T20:07:56Z")
I haven’t played any flight sims in a long time, but I’ve always had a fascination with WWI aviation. Are there any good sims out there now for WWI? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/4 "2013-10-08T21:25:16Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > It depends on your definition of “good.” In the sense of high-fidelity sims like Falcon 4, not so much. There was a time when [Third Wire](http://www.thirdwire.com/) looked to be taking over the mantle of “halfway seriousish” survey sims from Janes, but I gather that they haven’t been able to get much traction. Their focus is, charmingly, somewhere between the 1960s and the 1980s, so you get a nice range of aircraft and technologies. > > I don’t know that I’d agree that there haven’t been any good modern-era air-combat games since F4. Eagle Dynamics’ (_Su-27 Flanker_) DCS series has taken over the study sim area, so near as I can tell. Air-to-air combat is essentially nonexistent, since their first airplane was the A-10C, but the ground attack part of that is scrupulously detailed and a rollicking good time. Anybody who has not nursed a Warthog back to base with half a wing hasn’t lived. > > (As far as the air-to-air side, Eagle Dynamics’ _Lock On_ is pretty good, though the flight model is definitely showing its age. There is, however, an F/A-18C in the works I think, and a third-party dev has been making good progress on a MiG-21) The DCS series seem very good but the lack of a dynamic campaign kind of puts me off. Also I’ve tried a couple of the early games and I didn’t like the game mechanics though I can’t remember why, maybe I should give them another chance. > [@DETXL](#): > > Or it may just have been growing up on Tom Clancy and Stephen Coonts that did it, and with a different library I might’ve fallen for the P-47 instead of the A-6. You may have hit the nail on the head there, I also grew up on those books _(and Top Gun!)_, I wouldn’t say I find WW2 aerial combat _uninteresting_ but it has never really done it for me in the same way as post-WW2 does. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/5 "2013-10-08T22:27:34Z")
I play [Fighter Squadron: The Screaming Demons Over Europe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Squadron:_The_Screamin%27_Demons_Over_Europe). A hidden feature let’s you use a HUD, which is useful when you’re strafing Jerry’s airfield. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/6 "2013-10-08T23:58:51Z")
I played the hell out of [MicroProse’s Gunship](http://www.mobygames.com/game/gunship) and the [Red](http://www.mobygames.com/game/red-baron) [Baron](http://www.mobygames.com/game/red-baron-ii) [Games](http://www.mobygames.com/game/red-baron-3-d) from Dynamix. [The Good Old Games version of Red Baron](http://www.mobygames.com/game/red-baron-pack) doesn’t play well with Win 7, unfortunately. Jet combat moves too damn fast for me. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/7 "2013-10-19T07:04:25Z")
Longbow 2 was my passion. Modern attack helicopters are loads of fun. Agile, stealthy hunters that are both predator and prey to various enemies, both ground and air. You get a little bit of everything, and the intimate connection with the terrain means that even just a simple passage from point A to point B can be a lot of fun. Add in a dynamic campaign second only to Falcon 4’s, and you can’t go wrong. Modern jet is my runner-up. The electronic battlefield is an interesting place, or can be. Falcon 4 is simply outstanding, but there’s not a single other jet sim between there and Falcon 3.0 that I’ve genuinely liked. The playground is at least as important as the aircraft itself, if not more so, and a couple canned missions with a scant handful of predictable enemies with bad AI just doesn’t cut it. It’s thus very hard to do a good single-player/coop game, and pretty much impossible to do the topic justice in adversarial multiplayer. (actually Planetside 2 comes the closest to this, oddly enough) I’ve put my share of time into WW2 air (several hundred hours in Warbirds, primarily) and while it has its merits, I’m not the biggest fan. The aircraft and weapons performance is so limited that, when well-modeled, the actual combat turns out rather formulaic; a slower aircraft is ultimately useless against a faster one (although climb rate adds some slight spice to the equation) and in group combat the outcome is even more predetermined. I haven’t done nearly as much WW1, but it struck me as even more so. Sadly, the sim genre as a whole is pretty much dead. The DCS guys have a really good half of a sim, but without any sort of dynamic campaign, it’s ultimately more of a toy than a game. Here’s hoping the popularity of stuff like War Thunder helps grow a new generation into sims. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/8 "2013-10-19T20:36:20Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I haven’t played any flight sims in a long time, but I’ve always had a fascination with WWI aviation. Are there any good sims out there now for WWI? The people who did the IL-2 games actually just put out a new one last month called _Rise of Flight_. The reviews I’ve read say that the flight modeling is phenomenal and the combat is pretty good, but there’s a very limited campaign. It’s definitely something I’ll be picking up if it goes on sale. I would love it if someone would make a good Korean War flight sim. _Mig Alley_ was one of my all-time favorites. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/9 "2013-10-19T21:50:34Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The people who did the IL-2 games actually just put out a new one last month called _Rise of Flight_. The reviews I’ve read say that the flight modeling is phenomenal and the combat is pretty good, but there’s a very limited campaign. It’s definitely something I’ll be picking up if it goes on sale. Ooh. I haven’t been playing sims recently, but I played the hell out of the original Red Baron when I was a kid, and then some of the IL-2 series a few years ago. With IL-2, the developer had a pretty strong track record of steadily improving on their games and adding content both for free and in add-ons. I’ll keep an out for it on those ridiculous and wonderful digital distribution sales… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/10 "2013-10-19T22:26:38Z")
I wore out A-10. Has anyone ever done an updated version? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/11 "2013-10-19T22:28:22Z")
My favourites were always Viet Nam-era to late 80s or so. Earlier stuff is too low-tech for my tastes (you can’t ask me to re-trim my plane every time I throttle up, _IL-2_. You just can’t. I won’t do it.), while with modern combat seems it seems there’s barely any skill involved beyond futzing around with radar modes and autopilot settings - it’s just fire missiles from 20 nauticals away (splash one bandit you’ve never seen. Yay.) and the bombs drop themselves on target automagically from 50 thousand feet. [Fuckin’ JDAM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng3HPrea90k). Modded _Falcon 4.0, Jane’s F-15 Strike Eagle III_ were the shit (for the latter, the historical Iraq campaign. No AMRAAMs, we’ve got these vintage fucking Sparrows for you, get in !). For me they were the perfect mix of unreliable long range, temperamental short range, quick gunnery and finicky but highly rewarding ground pounding. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/12 "2013-10-19T22:30:27Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I wore out A-10. Has anyone ever done an updated version? The aforementionned _Lock-On_ and the older _USAF_ both feature the hog. USAF is more on the arcade-y side though. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-era-of-military-flight-sim-do-you-like-and-why/670707/13 "2013-10-20T07:46:03Z")
I think I need to check my wallet. So much pure win here.