# What "ethnic/racial" descriptors are acceptable? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 3, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891 "2020-01-03T18:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/21 "2020-01-04T05:03:23Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > :dubious: > > Or Desi, but it tends to be used more as a self-identifier, IME. [Desi - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi) I know the term well but, yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a non-South Asian person use it to describe a South Asian person. Like you said, I only know it as a self-identifier. I feel it would be weird for me (a white person of Polish extraction) to refer to a South Asian as a “Desi.” Then again, I’ve never tried. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/22 "2020-01-04T09:50:40Z")
I don’t see why you’d have to include race in the description. “I’m sending over Mark. He’s a tall, slender guy with black hair, and he’s wearing khaki pants and a light blue shirt.” How many men are going to fit that description? Not sure why you wouldn’t know what the person is wearing, but if you HAD to add further descriptors, you might say, “He’s tall and slender with short, dark hair, an aquiline nose, and tan skin.” Or “She’s fair-skinned, has blue eyes, and is wearing a hijab.” Guessing at ethnicity is unnecessary and bound to get you in trouble. (And PS, in the federal government and some state governments like mine, the outmoded and inaccurate term “Oriental” is prohibited. There’s no reason to use it.) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/23 "2020-01-04T09:58:09Z")
I don’t see why you’d have to include race in the description. “I’m sending over Mark. He’s a tall, slender guy with black hair, and he’s wearing khaki pants and a light blue shirt.” How many men are going to fit that description? Not sure why you wouldn’t know what the person is wearing, but if you HAD to add further descriptors, you might say, “He’s tall and slender with short, dark hair, an aquiline nose, and tan skin.” Or “She’s fair-skinned, has blue eyes, and is wearing a hijab.” Guessing at ethnicity is unnecessary and bound to get you in trouble. (And PS, in the federal government and some state governments (like mine), the outmoded term “Oriental” is prohibited in all communications. There’s no reason to use it.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/24 "2020-01-04T15:49:19Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I don’t see why you’d have to include race in the description. Maybe not race specifically, but skin color can sometimes be the most immediate and obvious descriptor, and sometimes it feels silly to avoid it. I still usually try to avoid it, just in case, but not always. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/25 "2020-01-04T18:33:56Z")
By all means, describe the actual skin color, eye color, hair color, etc. One can do that and avoid any guessed or problematic or offensive racial/ethnic terminology like “looks Oriental”, “looks Jewish”, “looks African-American”, or whatever. The difference is pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/26 "2020-01-04T19:37:05Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Well lah-di-dah. South of Chicago, the Pekin HS team was the Chinks well into the 70s. :eek: > > And Chinese restaurants called Oriental this or that were not at all uncommon well past the 60s. Maybe it is you who ought to get out more! ;)(snip) A restaurant can be Oriental. A carpet can be Oriental. A thing can be Oriental. A person can not. A person is Asian. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/27 "2020-01-04T19:45:00Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > A restaurant can be Oriental. A carpet can be Oriental. A thing can be Oriental. A person can not. A person is Asian. I’m not sure it’s quite as simple as that. “Oriental restaurant” sounds pretty weird to my ears. It sounds like very outdated terminology to me. Maybe not offensive, but real old-timey. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/28 "2020-01-04T20:31:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure it’s quite as simple as that. “Oriental restaurant” sounds pretty weird to my ears. It sounds like very outdated terminology to me. Maybe not offensive, but real old-timey. Yeah, but I’ll bet there are thousands of restaurants out there called “Oriental Palace” or “Oriental Gardens”. It may be outdated, but I think acceptable usage. It’s not like calling a pancake joint “Sambo’s”. Remember them? Thankfully all gone, at least as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/29 "2020-01-05T01:58:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m all for describing someone with descriptors that work. I am not a racist, but I do not claim to “not see color”. I have two buddies named Joe. They’re both the same age, height, and weight. Both are retired, but I don’t know what either did for a living. Both wear dorky glasses. When I tell my gf I ran into Joe, I always say either “white Joe” or “black Joe” because that’s the easiest way to be sure she knows who I’m talking about. [Obligatory Simpsons link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhKJmJ5cbRo), sorry for finding only a Spanish link. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/30 "2020-01-05T05:11:33Z")
Maybe this decade PC will include not describing someone as dark, pale, fat, thin, heavy, short, tall, bald, balding, long hair, short hair, blonde, brunette, red or black hair and any other descriptors! :smack: Don’t to go China if you’re not Chinese and would be insulted when you learn what the names for foreigners mean in Chinese culture: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpct4pLjZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpct4pLjZo) Oh, and stay away from Korea too since once since they love to give loving pet names (usually given by their friends). Da Hyun (a member of the Kpop group Twice) is nickednamed Tofu because she’s so pale. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/31 "2020-01-05T05:20:50Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Yeah, but I’ll bet there are thousands of restaurants out there called “Oriental Palace” or “Oriental Gardens”. It may be outdated, but I think acceptable usage. It’s not like calling a pancake joint “Sambo’s”. Remember them? Thankfully all gone, at least as far as I know. The Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group still exists. Let’s boycott their hotels! Ohhh…they’re mostly four and five star hotels who could[n’t] care less if ordinary people never stayed there. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/32 "2020-01-05T05:25:53Z")
Ohhh…the horror! Google search for “Oriental Restaurant” [https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1MSIM\_enUS785US785&ei=3nIRXtzEG\_Pv9APq8pvgCg&q=oriental+resaurant&oq=oriental+resaurant&gs\_l=psy-ab.3…0i13l10.8678.15309…17287…4.1…0.141.2735.0j22…0…1…gws-wiz…0i71j0i273j0j0i131j0i67j0i10j0i22i10i30j0i22i30.C2mjNmsAE\_Q&ved=0ahUKEwjcq4v42-vmAhXzN30KHWr5BqwQ4dUDCAs&uact=5](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS785US785&ei=3nIRXtzEG_Pv9APq8pvgCg&q=oriental+resaurant&oq=oriental+resaurant&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i13l10.8678.15309..17287...4.1..0.141.2735.0j22......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i273j0j0i131j0i67j0i10j0i22i10i30j0i22i30.C2mjNmsAE_Q&ved=0ahUKEwjcq4v42-vmAhXzN30KHWr5BqwQ4dUDCAs&uact=5) BTW, there’s at least one Sambo’s still around: [https://sambosrestaurant.com/menu-breakfast-lunch-sambos-restaurant/](https://sambosrestaurant.com/menu-breakfast-lunch-sambos-restaurant/) ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/33 "2020-01-05T07:59:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > In the rural area where I live, “oriental” would be a huge step up from what I’m used to hearing people say. ☹ King of the Hill? “Hank Hill: So are you Chinese or Japanese??” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d\_CaZ4EAexQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_CaZ4EAexQ) ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/34 "2020-01-05T09:15:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Maybe not race specifically, but skin color can sometimes be the most immediate and obvious descriptor, and sometimes it feels silly to avoid it. I still usually try to avoid it, just in case, but not always. Yeah, I mean if I’m sending out an Amber alert on little Addison Smith you’d probably appreciate knowing that she’s black and wearing a My Little Ponies tee-shirt and jeans instead of just the bit about her garb. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/35 "2020-01-05T15:12:20Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Yeah, I mean if I’m sending out an Amber alert on little Addison Smith you’d probably appreciate knowing that she’s black and wearing a My Little Ponies tee-shirt and jeans instead of just the bit about her garb. I find it odd that this is your response to **pulykamell** saying _skin color_ can be a useful descriptor. I don’t have a problem with “black” as a race descriptor. I use it all the time for that. But it is horrible as a _skin color_ descriptor. Few people have literally black skin. Describing someone as “a black guy” doesn’t tell you anything bout how he looks. This conversation is reminding me of something that happened a while back. I was interested in looking at homes. A coworker’s mother was a realtor, so I decided to try her out. She was going to pick me up from in front of the office, but didn’t know what I looked like. So over the phone I described myself as a “tall, slenderish, short-haired, light-skinned African American woman.” I told her I would be the person waving her arms around, looking crazy. I told my coworker what I said to her mom–thinking she’d laugh–and she got super red. “WE DON’T USE THOSE WORDS!!” she said. Her facial expression was one of shock. “What words?” I asked, wondering what the fuck was going on. “WE DON’T SEE RACE!!” She had taken offense to me describing _myself_ racially. The way she was acting, you would think I had described myself as the “nigger gal with the chinky eyes” or something. Her reaction was OTT, IMHO. I do not think I have ever had to describe someone racially for identification purposes. But if I had to, I don’t think I’d be stressed out about it. I have used words like “Asian” to describe someone from Korea, China, Japan, Viet Nam, etc, but in my social circle, “Asian” is not some weird taboo word. For most Americans, there is a shared meaning of “Asian”. It may not be technically correct, but then again, white and black aren’t technically correct either. If I had to describe someone whose ethnicity was a mystery to me, I’d probably say something like, “He/she looks like she could be Middle Eastern or thereabouts” or “He/she looks like she may be from India or Bangladesh or thereabouts.” I really don’t think most people would find this offensive. When I’m describing a black person to another black person, I always give a skin color descriptor. “He’s medium complected, a little darker than you maybe.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/36 "2020-01-05T15:23:58Z")
Thanks all. As always, obtaining diverse opinions helps me consider my personal choices/behavior. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/37 "2020-01-05T17:07:17Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Yeah, I mean if I’m sending out an Amber alert on little Addison Smith you’d probably appreciate knowing that she’s black and wearing a My Little Ponies tee-shirt and jeans instead of just the bit about her garb. +1 I haven’t heard it in a long time, but even back in the '60’s when here was a lost child announcement, race or color was never mentioned, it was always: “We have a little lost boy/girl, about XX years old, wearing XX clothes and his/her name is XXX.” Can anyone share what an Amber Alert script calls for. Does it include race/color? Thinking about it, is race PC? Aren’t we all part of the _human race_? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/38 "2020-01-05T17:28:14Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I don’t see why you’d have to include race in the description. “I’m sending over Mark. He’s a tall, slender guy with black hair, and he’s wearing khaki pants and a light blue shirt.” How many men are going to fit that description? Not sure why you wouldn’t know what the person is wearing, but if you HAD to add further descriptors, you might say, “He’s tall and slender with short, dark hair, an aquiline nose, and tan skin.” Or “She’s fair-skinned, has blue eyes, and is wearing a hijab.” > > Guessing at ethnicity is unnecessary and bound to get you in trouble. I disagree. (And surely there might be a day’s gap — wherein clothes might be changed — between my meeting and yours.) Suppose for example the person looks Korean to me. It’s likely he would look more-or-less Korean to others — and that would be the economical description. In your view, instead of “He looks Korean,” I’d need to diagnose my own comprehension of Korean appearance. “Uh, skin is light-colored but not too light; his forehead might be slightly broader than typical. His eyes: somewhat non-European but I can’t say exactly how. Very dark hair. His nose was definitely not aquiline.” _Hmmmm. Did he look a bit Korean?_ “Yes!” Laughable. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/39 "2020-01-05T19:21:39Z")
It may be obvious to you that a person looks like a “typical” Korean or a “typical” Bavarian or a “typical” Mayan, but not everyone is a skilled anthropometrist or has been to those places. Whereas, if you straight out tell me some guy is nine feet tall and has blue skin, that is unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891/40 "2020-01-05T21:15:11Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Can anyone share what an Amber Alert script calls for. Does it include race/color? The ones I’ve gotten on the phone or seen on roadsigns typically only mention the car and plate number they’re looking for. The more complete ones I’ve seen online include pictures and a physical description, including race, of the missing child and abductor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ethnic-racial-descriptors-are-acceptable/845891.md?page=3)