# What event might cause a "temporary" use of martial law by the US Federal Government **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034 "2018-08-03T14:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ohiomstr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/82dd89/32.png) [@ohiomstr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ohiomstr2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/1 "2018-08-03T14:27:05Z")
I am still new at posting to the forum so I apologise in advance if this is the wrong place for this post. No doubt the moderator will correct my erroršŸ˜‚ While purusing a thread [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818217&goto=nextnewest](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818217&goto=nextnewest), it occurred to me that a situation like the Riechstag fire could happen in the USA. My questions are: What event or events might trigger the US Federal Government to declare martial law? What might be the response by the various State governments? What might be the response from the general public? If the public response was widespread protests, what might the Feds do.in reaction to the uproar? Let me clearly state that this is a completely hypothetical question and is _not_ directed at the current Administration. Ant thoughts on this? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/2 "2018-08-03T15:20:04Z")
Short of an invasion or a civil war I donā€™t see it happening. The individual states might do it in the case of natural disaster. The stateā€™s ability to do this locally reduces the need to take action like that at the federal level. Perhaps a disaster on the level of the Yellowstone caldera erupting would lead to it but that would be because the affected states would no longer be viable. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/3 "2018-08-03T15:23:38Z")
Maybe a dirty bomb or widespread biological weapons attack. Civil unrest to the level where there are militias killing each other in the streets? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/4 "2018-08-03T15:39:02Z")
The Supreme Court has essentially confined it to situations where civil order has completely broken down. As Wikipedia summarizes: The majority in [Ex Parte Milligan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Milligan) stated that ā€œmartial rule can never exist when the courts are openā€ and confined martial law to areas of ā€œmilitary operations, where war really prevails,ā€ and when it was a necessity to provide a substitute for a civil authority that had been overthrown. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/5 "2018-08-03T15:49:41Z")
I could see it in an area where a nuke went off from a terrorist group. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/6 "2018-08-03T16:22:15Z")
Hey I get to say it: Hi, **Ohio**! Welcome to SD. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/7 "2018-08-03T16:25:33Z")
It hasnā€™t been hypothetical in the US. From [Wiki Martial law in the US:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_the_United_States) Martial law in the United States refers to several periods in United States history wherein a region or the United States as whole are placed under the control of a military body. On a federal level, only the president has the power to impose Martial Law. In each state the governor has the right to impose martial law within the borders of the state. In the United States, martial law has been used in a limited number of circumstances, such as directly after a foreign attack, such as Hawaii after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor or New Orleans during the Battle of New Orleans; after major disasters, such as the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 or the San Francisco earthquake of 1906; renegade local leaders seeking to avoid arrest, such as Nauvoo, Illinois during the Illinois Mormon War, or Utah during the Utah War; or in response to chaos associated with protests and mob action, such as the 1934 West Coast waterfront strike, or mob actions against the [1961] Freedom Riders. I donā€™t know the difference between Statesā€™ actions, with the State National Guard (or is the National Guard a federally direct able thing, since they get sent to real wars overseas?), and OP is aware of this and specifically excludes them in his query. That is, a state National Guard has been used many, many times (natural disasters, eg), and the above listed cases do in fact address OP. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/8 "2018-08-03T16:31:41Z")
:smack: ETA: What **Tripolar** said less than half-an hour after OP.\ Although my confusion on the Federal direct orders (ie, ā€œgo to Afghanistanā€) vs. a Governorā€™s call-up of a State National Guard persists. No doubt weā€™ve had a thread or three on that, but can this be addressed, _passim_, in this thread? [\* Proud of himself for that \*passim \* \*] ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/9 "2018-08-03T16:42:15Z")
Large scale natural disaster (supervolcano, meteor hit, massive earthquake) Large scale riots Large scale terrorist attack Political coup attempt Can people file lawsuits with the courts to get martial law overturned? Or are the courts neutered under martial law? Who ends martial law? Does the military end it, the civilian government, the courts? ---
**Author:** ![ohiomstr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/82dd89/32.png) [@ohiomstr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ohiomstr2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/10 "2018-08-03T17:16:53Z")
I was actually thinking about a Federal action but was not aware of some of the situations on a state level mentioned upthread, thanks for the first of the three new things to learn today! ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/11 "2018-08-03T19:52:02Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Although my confusion on the Federal direct orders (ie, ā€œgo to Afghanistanā€) vs. a Governorā€™s call-up of a State National Guard persists. No doubt weā€™ve had a thread or three on that, but can this be addressed, _passim_, in this thread?[\* Proud of himself for that \*passim \* \*] Individual states maintain National Guard units as part of their state militias.\* As a state militia, National Guard units are under the command of the governor of the state. National Guard units are also simultaneously Reserve elements of the U.S. Army (Air National Guard units are Reserve elements of the U.S. Air Force). Under certain circumstances, the President may, by executive order, activate National Guard units as Army Reserve and National Guard (ARNG) units. This is often referred to as ā€œFederalizing.ā€ Once a NG unit has been ā€œFederalizedā€, it is a unit of the U.S. Army, fully under the command of the President as commander-in-chief of all U.S. armed forces. Under the legislation establishing the National Guard system, the state and Federal governments share the costs of equipping, training, and maintaining National Guard units while they are in reserve status. The nitty-gritty of the cost-sharing can get pretty convoluted, but basically, when a state governor calls up a National Guard unit, it is fully under his or her command, and that state bears the full cost of the unitā€™s operations during the state activation. When the President federalizes a unit, it is fully under his command, and the Federal government bears the full cost of the unitā€™s operations for the duration of the Federal activation. \*I believe Texas actually maintains a completely separate state militia, and AFAIK, is the only state to do so. In all other states, their National Guard contingents are the entirety of their state militias. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/12 "2018-08-03T20:13:46Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > \*I believe Texas actually maintains a completely separate state militia, and AFAIK, is the only state to do so. In all other states, their National Guard contingents are the entirety of their state militias. 21 states maintain official militia separate from the National Guard system. In New York we even have our own Navy! Hereā€™s the [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_state_defense_forces). ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/13 "2018-08-03T20:28:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > 21 states maintain official militia separate from the National Guard system. In New York we even have our own Navy! > > Hereā€™s the [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_state_defense_forces). Ignorance fought! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/14 "2018-08-04T03:24:01Z")
I have absolutely nothing of any substance to add (as usual) except to say that this was a great question and a really informative thread. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/15 "2018-08-04T04:49:34Z")
Yes, if the Capitol Building were to burn down in the middle of the night when nobody was there Iā€™m sure the entire United States would be plunged into immediate martial law. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/16 "2018-08-04T05:46:54Z")
If hypothetically all the key people in the federal government were blown up, for example when they were assembled to hear a state of the union address, except for one person that no one liked, who was told to go buy the pizzas, would that trigger martial law? Yes, government would stop, but there is a chain of succession that perates in the face of a coup, and there is not inherently social collapse. I ask because I have an idea for a TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/17 "2018-08-04T06:20:31Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > ask because I have an idea for a TV show. I hear Kiefer Sutherland [might be available](https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/designated-survivor-kiefer-sutherland-abc-drama-canceled-1202807925/) to play the lead part. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/18 "2018-08-04T07:20:05Z")
Martial law isnā€™t really a concept in the U.S., whatever some may think. Milligan is an acknowledgement of extreme circumstances, not an affirmation of a system wherein the military can take over civilian government. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/19 "2018-08-05T05:01:18Z")
About the only thing that comes to mind that doesnā€™t require a hostile actor would be a massive failure of the power grid that went on for more than a week or so. [Weak links in US power grid vulnerable in event of catastrophe](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2153472-weak-links-in-us-power-grid-vulnerable-in-event-of-catastrophe/) > [@](#): > > In July 2012 India experienced the largest power outage in history. More than 620 million people were left without electricity after a transmission line in the northern part of the country failed, buckling under too much electrical load. Nearby power lines that took up the slack also failed, and lights across 22 Indian states went out. > > All power grids are at risk of this rare domino effect, called a cascading failure, and pinpointing which parts of the grid are most vulnerable could prevent future costly blackouts. > > Takashi Nishikawa at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois and colleagues modelled this risk in the North American power grid. Surprisingly, they found that only 10.8 per cent of all links in the US and southern Canada were at risk of failing in a cascade event. So while itā€™s extremely unlikely, I think itā€™s actually more likely than any of the other scenarios listed here. It would only take one perfect storm of events. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034/20 "2018-08-05T13:09:57Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > 21 states maintain official militia separate from the National Guard system. In New York we even have our own Navy! > > Hereā€™s the [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_state_defense_forces). Thanks for this list ā€¦ from Wikipediaā€™s article on [ā€œMaryland Defense Forceā€](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Defense_Force): ā€œHowever, as a state defense force, the MDDF is solely under control of the State of Maryland and cannot be federalized or deployed outside the borders of Maryland.ā€ So in Maryland, the State Militia is separate and distinct from the National Guard ā€¦ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-might-cause-a-temporary-use-of-martial-law-by-the-us-federal-government/819034.md?page=2)