# What event(s) would have to take place for the American people to have a revolution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417 "2002-12-13T03:34:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/1 "2002-12-13T03:34:29Z")
What event(s) would have to take place for the American people to have a revolution? Are we currently standing on enough shakey ground for it to take place? Further, even if it did occur, how would people group together to start another cause, because we can’t even get the majority to vote? Gotta know asap so i know which group to start allying with! ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/2 "2002-12-13T03:37:25Z")
It’s not going to happen anytime in your lifetime. For better or worse, the U.S. government is going to stay right where it is. The only hope is to affect change through elections, and even that is very limited and usually actually preserves the status quo. Nope, not going to happen in America. If anyone thinks it _can_, please feel free to provide a plausible scenario… ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/3 "2002-12-13T03:40:08Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** This isn’t a question which has a factual answer. It probably belongs in GD, so I’ll move it there now. While I’m at it, I’m going to take the liberty of updating the thread title to make it a little clearer what’s being debated. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/4 "2002-12-13T03:50:46Z")
If martial law were implemented for any non-trivial length of time (like, a few weeks), without something like 9/11 having happened immediately before, the seeds of revolt would start with militia members and radical gun nuts taking to the hills. As martial law continued, more moderate people would start to think of revolution, largely because some were already revolting (albeit not seriously, in the public perception). Then something would happen like the national guard firing into a (not so) peaceful protest; more protests would follow, with more brutal repression (on the order of Tianneman Square). That’s when rank-and-file Americans would switch sides in large numbers, and you’d have a real insurgency. The key to this scenario is that the government does something _grossly_ tyrannical, which gets the radicals going. Only with that seed does revolution seem plausible to the average American, and in the face of more gross tyranny by the government, they join the guerillas. Not that I think this is remotely plausible, since the 90s and the 00s showed us quite definitively that we’ll allow our freedoms to be nickled and dimed away. I can’t imagine anyone in power in America thinking that brutal despotism is useful, when a bit of subtlety accomplishes much more. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/5 "2002-12-13T03:54:45Z")
it may not seem possible presently, but it has happened and does happen… Take a look around the globe or watch tv news sometime. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/6 "2002-12-13T04:04:44Z")
My point is that anyone in power in America probably sees that there’s no need for brutal despotism–they can have the power and the wealth without it. I’m not saying that extreme tyranny is impossible, I’m saying that extreme tyranny will be reached, if it is reached, by an incremental process that tries hard to stay under the radar. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/7 "2002-12-13T04:16:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\*If martial law were implemented for any non-trivial length of time (like, a few weeks), without something like 9/11 having happened immediately before, the seeds of revolt would start with militia members and radical gun nuts taking to the hills. As martial law continued, more moderate people would start to think of revolution, largely because some were already revolting (albeit not seriously, in the public perception). > > \*\* You seem to envision some tyran appearing out of nowhere and against the will of everybody. That’s not a plausible scenario. A dictartorship can’t be implemented without a support either from the military, either from a relatively large part of the population. In the first case, the army will do its best to crush any armed (or even possibly peaceful) opposition. I’m not convinced that it wouldn’t succeed. In the second case, part of the armed populace would certainly take arms, but as some sort of “patriotic militia” , which would parade in the street and hunt down the “antipatriotic” elements opposed to the new order. A weapon in the hands of a private citizen can certainly be used to fight against a tyranical government, but it can also be used to help said tyrannical government to “restore order”. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/8 "2002-12-13T04:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > If martial law were implemented for any non-trivial length of time (like, a few weeks), without something like 9/11 having happened immediately before, the seeds of revolt would start with militia members and radical gun nuts taking to the hills. As martial law continued, more moderate people would start to think of revolution, largely because some were already revolting (albeit not seriously, in the public perception). Keep in mind that martial law is invoked by a military commander _after_ all civilian authority and rule has broken down. So your rebels and militia members must exist long enough to destable the civilian authority requiring the military elements of the civilian authority to take control once the civilian authority can no longer function, _then declare martial law_. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/9 "2002-12-13T04:46:41Z")
We already had our revolution, and most people seem happy with the results. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/10 "2002-12-13T05:03:55Z")
You say you want a revolution? Well, you know, we’d all like to change the world. You tell me that it’s evolution, well you know, we all want to change the world. But if you start talking about destruction, I’m telling you, brother, you can count me out. Don’t you know it’s gonna be alright? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/11 "2002-12-13T05:53:10Z")
I agree with Hansel; as long as they proceed with some subtlety, there’s no chance that revolt will happen. And for a cite, I call on Che Guevara, from _Guerilla Warfare_, 1961. > [@](#): > > It must always be kept in mind that there is a necessary minimum without which the establishment and consolidation of the first center is not practicable. People must see clearly the futility of maintaining the fight for social goals within the framework of civil debate. When the forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law, peace is considered already broken. > … > Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least an appearance of constitutional legality, the guerilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted. Pretty much sums it up for me. All they have to do is give you the illusion that your vote counts, and they effectively squelch any possible revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/12 "2002-12-13T16:52:04Z")
The thing that scares me is that I don’t know how much longer a revolution could even succeed with the new technology that is becoming available. Laws are crafted in such a way as to prevent that very thing, and even talking about it seriously no doubt gets you on a black list. Technology is placing tools of incredible power into the hands of a few select people. At some point we may cross a line of no return where the technology is so powerful that even a revolution by a large portion of the population could be controlled. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/13 "2002-12-13T20:04:34Z")
Yep, the government is controlling everything. Why, even talking about revolutions on internet message boards is now impossible. If anyone tried, government agents would be knocking on their doors and leading them away to undisclosed locations. It’s too bad we live in a police state like that, but there’s nothing we average citizens can do. Like, vote? Nah, impossible. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/14 "2002-12-13T20:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > … since the 90s and the 00s showed us quite definitively that we’ll allow our freedoms to be nickled and dimed away. OK - this is a sticking point. To what degree would Americans tolerate having their freedoms taken away or taxed heavily or being monitored full time and becoming people of interest simply because of their view before they’d revolt? This taxation business is edgy because if they delete currency for debit cards, they are genuinely “in our bank account” and can take as much as they want - no PIN needed. These are not scenarios - they’re real - how much “realler” do they have to get? Or are we to be totally pacified by having our TV’s, SUV’s and interstate roads and shopping malls to lull us into believing that’s all the freedom we need? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/15 "2002-12-13T20:56:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > A dictartorship can’t be implemented without a support either from the military, either from a relatively large part of the population. In the first case, the army will do its best to crush any armed (or even possibly peaceful) opposition. \*\* “The Army” is by and large a volunteer force consisting of ordinary Americans. I suspect that using the military as it is now to attempt a coup would not be successful. I’m not sure what you people mean by “revolution”. We aren’t a colony of some larger power so there really isn’t anyone to revolt against. If you are talking about a military or political coup, that is pretty tough under the current system and is likely never to work. If you are talking about significantly changing government policy, well that happens all the time. All you need is a cause like Vietnam or racial equality that so galvanized the population that the government is forced to listen. Problem is that for the most part, 90% of us live pretty mundane, tolerable lives. We go to work, hang out with our families, eat dinner and so on. There are very few issues which dramatically affect us one way or the other. Probably the biggest concern I have is that the New York MTA may go on strike and inconvenience me. (Of couse, since I no longer work, I rarely need the subway any more). If you are talking about a civil war, I can picture a scenario where a state or group of states in forced to do something it doesn’t want to do. For example, if the federal government orders Arkansas to integrate their schools and the governer of Arkansas uses National Guard troops to prevent such an action, I can see how that could explode a ‘civil war’. More likely, it would probably just be localized civil unrest. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bongmaster_ > The thing that scares me is that I don’t know how much longer a revolution could even succeed with the new technology that is becoming available. How about this technology - going over and simply talking to someone? There were revolutions and opressive governments long before the computers and there are a lot of forms of communication that are not broadcasted electronically. I’m not sayingthat the government should spy on everyone all the time, but our freedom is not based on the governments level of technology. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/16 "2002-12-13T21:05:41Z")
The only thing that I could see setting off the American people, would be the forced stop of television broadcasting. After all, why should I care when I can set on my fat ass and watch others live my life for me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/17 "2002-12-13T23:40:26Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* \*\*“The Army” is by and large a volunteer force consisting of ordinary Americans. I suspect that using the military as it is now to attempt a coup would not be successful. \*\* Perhaps. But it’s an hypothetical proposed by hansel. And for any kind of dictatorship to appear, it had to be backed by either a part of the population, either by the army. Hansel seemed to envision a situation where everybody would be opposed to the coup (and would take arms to fight it). This just can’t happen. If someone consider what could be the reaction of the american people if some tyranny was to appear, the hypothetical must make some sense. I wasn’t arguing about the likehood that the US army would make a coup, just saying to the poster that if some tyran usurped power, there would necessarily be some important force supporting the new dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![Pythagras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@Pythagras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythagras)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/18 "2002-12-14T03:06:53Z")
People arent going to revolt so long as they are kept at the current level of prosperity. A sharp, Great-Depressionsist economic downturn followed by a sudden shift to a regimental society would spark a revolution. In fact the last time are gov’t was seriously being threatened by internal overthrow was during the bonus-army crisis during the Depression. Its suprising that the US govt stayed intact despite the turmiol experienced in so many other countries during the time. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/19 "2002-12-14T14:58:18Z")
Call me cynical but As long as Americans keep on getting money and the right to spend money in any way they see fit, Revolution will be nigh near impossible. Hell, if only ~20% of people are turning out to vote, thats a pretty clear sign that people dont care what happens in this country. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417/20 "2002-12-14T16:29:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shalmanese \* > Call me cynical but As long as Americans keep on getting money and the right to spend money in any way they see fit, Revolution will be nigh near impossible. \*\* If most people are making a decent living and have the freedom to spend their money as they see fit, there really isn’t a reason to revolt. 90% of revolutions have their roots in economic issues. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-event-s-would-have-to-take-place-for-the-american-people-to-have-a-revolution/142417.md?page=2)