# What every well-read Science-Fiction fan should read-maybe. (very long!) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243 "2001-06-18T20:38:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/21 "2001-06-19T08:48:49Z")
I’d add Neuromancer over other Cyberpunk…might not be the best, but the best known and most influential. (I don’t like cyberpunk, really, so I couldn’t name any others that I might add…) I say add both BNW and 1984…1984 might be more influential, but BNW was much better written. Ditto the suggestion of Childhood’s end. (Only Clarke book I managed to finish. ^\_\_^;😉 I’d suggest dropping some of the Heinlien… The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Puppet Masters. Others kept because they’re more ‘important’, IMO (More for the overview of Heinlein than the effect on the genre, though - but ST gets kept because I have a feeling it was rather surprisingly influential, given its merely ‘standard’ quality - and I think that Forever War would lose something unless read after ST.) As for Dick, I concur on Do Androids Dream… I’d add: Lem’s Solaris. Moore’s Utopia (Not as fantastic as Gulliver or The Inferno, but a good excercise in worldbuilding.) Carrol’s Alice books (Self-indulgent, but, dammit, they should be read by EVERYONE!) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/22 "2001-06-19T10:20:00Z")
Reading Dune without going on to Dune Messiah and Children of Dune would be like quitting LOTR after Fellowship of the Ring. Herbert said the trilogy was plotted as one long story and should be read as such. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/23 "2001-06-19T11:56:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*I read quite a bit of SF, but I still don’t consider myself well read. Your list pretty much proves it to me. > > I will suggest some others though: > > First, I fully understand 1984’s importance to the genre, but the first 100 pages were like wading through concrete. I liked Animal Farm much better.\*\* Me too. But A) Animal Farm isn’t really “Science” Fiction (more allegory or “Speculative” Fiction) and B)It really isn’t as important. 1984 discusses totalitarinaism everywhere, Animal Farm is about the Russian Revolution. \*\* > [@](#): > > Red, Green, and Blue Mars (three different books) by Kim Stanley Robinson. The first was a Hugo award winner in 1995 IIRC.\*\* : Actually the second and third were winners, not the first. I’m trying to avoid multi-book series (Foundation can stand alone), but enough people are recommending this so I may reconsider. Personally, I bounced off the first book after uttering the “Eight Deadly Words” \*\* > [@](#): > > Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. Don’t tell me this book didn’t change the entire way mainstream SF could be written [sub]What? Jack Vance? shut up! No one asked for your opinion[/sub]\*\* It didn’t, but it proved that that kind of fiction could sell (Sheckley’s Dimension of Miracles did it earlier). Anyway, you’re right, consider it added. \*\* > [@](#): > > Further along those lines, I haven’t read any of these, but what about the Discworld series by Pratchett?\*\* I love Pratchett, but it’s too close to fantasy. \*\* > [@](#): > > Also, Dr. Schmidt has been writing since the '50s? Weird. I just know his work in Analog.\*\* No. Schmidt started writing in the late '60s, IIRC (Newton and the Quasi-Apple is a minor masterpiece). The Unknown is a compilation of short stories from the late, much lamented magazine “Unknown” which only published in the '40s. \ \*\* > [@](#): > > And speaking of Asimov, did you know that he wrote over 400 novels in his career? \*\* nitpick: he wrote over 300 BOOKS, not novels. Much of those 400+ were science popularizations (I have a “How to use a slide rule” book by Asimov, somewhere) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/24 "2001-06-19T12:19:25Z")
**Marvel** : Thanks. Like I said, your thread inspired me to actually post this! So, “Thank You, too!” 🙂 **detop** : I’ll check. I did about half of this from memory. I _thought_ Dangerous Visions was 1970 or 71, but now that I think about it, you may be right. I’ll double check. **Terminus** : Maybe Fountains…but I think a good short story collection would actually be better. Clarke’s short stories are _so_ good. Any suggestions? Amber, and The New Sun are too close to fantasy and I’m trying to stay away from non-standalone books. I thought Ringworld wasn’t as good/important as the other Niven stuff I’ve read, Naked Sun was (IMHO) the least of Asimov’s novels (I’ve always felt it was a mercy-Hugo). But I can be convinced **pink kitten** Got Neuromancer in there already **Steve** : The Vance Planet of Adventure is a pretty good idea. It’s kind of forgotten, but Chalker cites it as a source for the Well of Souls stuff, Farmer cites it for the Lavalite World stuff, so it’s pretty influential. And since there’s that omnibus edition, it doesn’t break the “no series” rule! 😃 You’re right about Stapledon. Which would you recommend? I agonized about Anderson’s Tao Zero. I may reconsider. **Miller** Dammit, this list is too long already. You’re not helping! 😃 Except for The Diamond Age (I’ll consider it, but…I’m not sure) the rest of your list gets onto the master list verbatim. (BTW: If you think _I_ don’t like Vonnegut, you should read what Niven and Pournelle think of him. What they did to him in Inferno!) **Tengu** I’m reconsidering Brave New World. I’m having an emotional crisis though: I _hated_ Childhood’s End. “Throw the book across the room” hated. I’m trying to convince myself it wasn’t all _That_ important to the genre. Regarding the Heinlein: I’m more tempted to drop Tunnel in the Sky than Puppet Masters. I like 'em both a lot, but…Puppet is such a good “Cold War” book. I _refuse_ to drop Moon\* if for no other reason that it may be my favorite! 😉 Consider Do Androids added. I think Lem is a good idea. I’ll put Solaris on tentatively with the caveat that if I get a lot of suggestions for other Lem, I may swap books. Moore’s Utopia-Hmmmm…maybe. The “Alice” books? They’re closer to Fantasy (again, an artifical distinction). On the other hand, you’re right-they’re great. Maybe I’ll do a “Essential Fantasy” list later. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Pyrrhonist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pyrrhonist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyrrhonist)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/25 "2001-06-19T12:32:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by A Friend of the Devil \* > \*\* And I thought I was the only person around who considered _A Canticle for Liebowitz_ a must-read. > \*\* Add me on the _Canticle_ must read list. There was a posthumously published sequel, but I’ve heard it bites the wax tadpole, so I haven’t read it. I’m very suspicious of books finished by different authors. ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/26 "2001-06-19T12:41:14Z")
I don’t know if it’s considered SF or not, but may I suggest Anthony Burgess’s _A Clockwork Orange_? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/27 "2001-06-19T12:56:57Z")
**celestina** : Never heard o’ Dark Matter (which is unusual for me!): Can you give some background on it? Butler: I’ve read her older stuff Patternmaster and Clay’s Ark and didn’t think she was all that groundbreaking. I understand her newer stuff is better. True? Welcome Chaos: Haven’t read it, but had it recommended a number of times…maybe. The Snow Queen…probably should be included. Kate Elliot: Not familiar with her. More info, please? **eunoia** : pffffbt! 😉 Given that I was doing this from memory, it wasn’t a bad try. But you’re right and it’ll be corrected. **Friend of the Devil** : Canticle won the Hugo and Nebula(I think) for best Novel: you’re definitly not alone! 🙂 I dunno about Crichton. **Some Guy** : By the way; I’m correcting a silly typo here: A Treasury of Great SF vol 1 & 2 are by **Boucher** , not _Bester_. Both great authors, but a world of difference between them. Why The Demolished Man, but not The Stars My Destination? I hadda choose one of the two for space purposes, and A) Demolished won the first Hugo. B) It’s one of the very first SF/Detective stories (I dunno if it or Caves of Steel came first, but they’re neck-and-neck, I believe and C) I like Demolished a bit better. 😉 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/28 "2001-06-19T13:34:36Z")
Stapledon… _Star Maker_ is probably the better book, but _Last and First Men_ is the better known, and the one that established Stapledon as an author, so, on the basis of _importance to the genre_, I’d go with that one. Lem… has made a lot of contributions in different areas of the genre, from deep speculative fiction (_Solaris_, or my personal favourite _His Master’s Voice_) to edgy humourous SF(_The Cyberiad_, _The Star Diaries_) to surrealist nightmares (_The Investigation_, _Memoirs Found in a Bathtub_). Still, _Solaris_ is possibly his most influential book, at least in the West. (Though it’s the _book_, not the _film_, that’s important. Not that Tarkovsky’s film of _Solaris_ is a bad film, it’s just that it’s very much Tarkovsky’s vision rather than Lem’s. I saw an interview with Lem a few years ago in which he described his clashes with Tarkovsky over the project, culminating in Lem calling Tarkovsky something which BBC2 translated as “bloody idiot” and catching the next flight baxk to Poland.) Lem’s also well-known as an SF critic: would books _about_ SF figure on the list? If so, Kingsley Amis’ _New Maps of Hell_, Brian Aldiss’ _Billion Year Spree_ (later increased to _Trillion Year Spree_ with the aid of David Pringle), and Lem’s _Microworlds_ should make an appearance. Or should we just stick to books that people might actually want to read ;)? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/29 "2001-06-19T13:48:06Z")
On the contrary, I think that the character of Elijah Bailey was most fully realized in _The Naked Sun_. Anyway, we can quibble over that, but I’ve suddenly come up with a much better Asimov for you: _The Gods Themselves_. A couple more titles for consideration: _Cities in Flight_ - James Blish _More Than Human_ - Theodore Sturgeon I can’t name any Clarke collections offhand. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/30 "2001-06-19T14:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terminus Est \* > **On the contrary, I think that the character of Elijah Bailey was most fully realized in _The Naked Sun_. > Anyway, we can quibble over that, but I’ve suddenly come up with a much better Asimov for you: _The Gods Themselves_.** Elijah was better realized in Sun, which was the book, but neither it nor Gods was as groundbreaking or representative of Asimov as Caves IMHO. I’m sticking with Caves. \*\* > [@](#): > > _Cities in Flight_ - James Blish > \*\* Mayaaaabe. The last part wasn’t very good, but the first one or two parts were so good that…well…maybe. _More Than Human_ - Theodore Sturgeon Yup. Still need a collection of Sturgeon’s best, but consider this added. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/31 "2001-06-19T15:19:09Z")
My personal preference is for “The Stars My Destination” over “The Demolished Man.” Demolished was influential, but I think Stars is the better book, with a better antihero (and a better character arc for him) and stronger symbolism. Also, I second the Vance “Planet of Adventure” series. His language really gives the feeling of alienness, and I like the cool remoteness of his hero. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/32 "2001-06-19T15:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*Lem’s also well-known as an SF critic: would books _about_ SF figure on the list? If so, Kingsley Amis’ _New Maps of Hell_, Brian Aldiss’ _Billion Year Spree_ (later increased to _Trillion Year Spree_ with the aid of David Pringle), and Lem’s _Microworlds_ should make an appearance. Or should we just stick to books that people might actually want to read ;)? \*\* No criticisms of the SF for this list, but if I did include them, I’d add Knight and Moskowitz to your list, and remove anything that David (smarm-king) Pringle touched. Don’t you know that Pringle is Satan’s Own Critic?! :eek: (I’d love to add one other, but sadly they’ve never done a collection of Spider Robinson’s Spider vs the Hax of Sol III columns. \ Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/33 "2001-06-19T15:49:51Z")
By the way: Flatland-Abbot. Dunno. Opinions? It’s a great book and all, but the emphasis is on social satire more than science. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/34 "2001-06-19T15:53:21Z")
By the way: Flatland-Abbot. Dunno. It’s a great book and all, but the emphasis is on social satire more than science. Opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/35 "2001-06-19T16:04:41Z")
2001-Arthur C. Clarke Make Room, Make Room!-Henry Harrison Battlefield Earth-L. Ron Hubbard…it’s so BAD, it’s important that way. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/36 "2001-06-19T16:10:58Z")
Azimov’s _Pebble in the Sky_ I like better than _Caves_. Oh! Phillip Jose Farmer’s _Riverworld_ is good, as is the _Stainless Steel Rat_ by Harrison. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/37 "2001-06-19T17:37:22Z")
I think I’d take _Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang_ in lieu of _Welcome, Chaos_, although it’s a tough call. I’d definitely go with _The Doomsday Book_ over _To Say Nothing of the Dog_, as much as I adored the latter. Actually, it might be best to have both of them. Sherri Tepper is probably not well enough known to make the list. Her early books (like the Marianne books and the True Game series) are really fantasy, anyway. If she makes the cut, I would take _Grass_ as best/most representative. _Beggars in Spain_? ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/38 "2001-06-19T18:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*From the 1930s, I will continue to plug Olaf Stapledon (_Star Maker_,_Last and First Men_). > \*\* Yay Stapledon! _Star Maker_ is one of the most difficult things I’ve ever had to slog through, but it’s worth the effort. 😃 Oh, and I also consider _Canticle for Leibowitz_ a must-read, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/39 "2001-06-19T20:30:27Z")
Great list, Fenris. You’re a fan after my own heart. I’ve read about 80% of it and plan to read the rest sometime. (Many of which are actually sitting on the shelves waiting for me!) I’d just like to add my opinion that some of the best writing in field is in short story form, a medium that seems particularly suited to the genre. Gardner Dozois’s _The Year’s Best Science Fiction_ series is excellent and ubiquitous. Harder to find but well worth it is Donald A Wollheim’s _Annual World’s Best SF_ collection which ran from 1972 until his death in 1990. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243/40 "2001-06-19T21:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Myron Van Horowitzski \* > \*\*Gardner Dozois’s _The Year’s Best Science Fiction_ series is excellent and ubiquitous. > > Harder to find but well worth it is Donald A Wollheim’s _Annual World’s Best SF_ collection which ran from 1972 until his death in 1990. \*\* I like Wollheim’s tastes, Dozois chooses good stuff that I tend not to like as much. My personal favorite of the “Best Of” type series sould have to be The Great SF Stories edited by Asimov and Greenburg: The first volume started in 1938 and each volume moved forward a year. It went through um…1964 (Allegedly, NESFA has picked up the set and will be continuing with Greenburg and Silverburg) and I’ve _never_ seen a more complete “Best of” set of anthologies. Except for Heinlein and Bradbury, they got most of the important stories, plus enough weird, quirky choices that Asimov demanded that it’s not predictible. Fenris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-every-well-read-science-fiction-fan-should-read-maybe-very-long/69243.md?page=3)