What every well-read Science-Fiction fan should read-maybe. (very long!)

In My Humble Opinion
81

Hometownboy: Hmmm…I don’t know. To me Norton and Bradley fall more into the category of yeoman writers, sort of like Alan Dean Foster. Lots of output, some of it quite entertaining, but not really first-tier stuff. I don’t think I could point to a single Andre Norton book and declare it an indispensible classic. Nor do I think she’s had a great historical impact. Nor is illustrative for a particular period. Same for Bradley, though Dickson may edge into more significant territory. That’s sort of the problem I have with Simak. He had a distinctive voice and at one time was very popular, but I’m not sure of his overall impact. Hence my tentativeness :wink: . If I cast a vote for anything, it might be for Dickson’s Timestorm.

Not saying I dislike’em - I’ve read a lot of all three ( probably more Dickson and Bradley, than Norton ). And by the way, I thought the re-write of The Sword of Aldones, Sharra’s Exile, was vastly superior :slight_smile: .

  • Tamerlane
82

I have read Starship Troopers 3 times. At age 15, 25, and 40. Each time the book had a little bit different impact on me. At 15, it was a great shoot-em-up. At 40, the politics couldn’t be ignored. It may not be his best, but it’s impact can not be denied. There may not have been a Forever War or Berserkers without it. It would be hard to keep it off of my list.

Another one on my list would be Inherit The Stars by William Hogan. One of his most accessible books. And easily the most enjoyable (for me).

Another thought. For 20 years I thought Gateway by Fredrick Pohl was one of the best books I’ve read. I just re-read it a few months ago, and found it difficult to get thru. I guess my review today would be “great plot, poorly executed.”

83

I’ve got a soft spot for Andre Norton, too, but I wouldn’t describe any of her books as indispensable. Simak, though, I think has been unfairly neglected in recent years; he’s got a distinctive authorial voice, and had a significant impact in his prime… I’d second Way Station. MZB, in my view, has had more impact on the fantasy genre; Mists of Avalon might figure on “essential works” for that one, but I don’t see her on an SF list.

If you’re not going for the omnibus editions, I’m about 80% sure that the Clarke collection which includes “The Sentinel” is Expedition to Earth. Apart from that story, though, I don’t remember it being a particularly outstanding Clarke collection…

I don’t want to harp on the SF critics thing, but… my misgivings about Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? stem from the fact that Stanislaw Lem, wearing his critic’s hat, did a real hatchet job on this one. On the other hand, he was very complimentary about Ubik… so that’s the one which receives the feather-light weight of my recommendation.

If we must have van Vogt, I’d go with Slan. (“Fans are slans”, after all).

84

Tamerlane: Ellison might deserve two collections, not one. Let’s assume Deathbird is in. Lemme check my Ellison for an earlier collection.

Vance? I’ve never read The Dragonmasters. I’m not really inclined to include Vance, despite his talent, as he’s not really that influential. The only reason I’m seriously considering the Planet of Adventure stuff is that several other authors have cited it as a major work.

Leiber: The Big Time was good, but it wasn’t groundbreaking (there were other Time War stories before). I think he’s far more important as a fantasy writer.

Simak? Even though Waystation won a Hugo, I’d be more inclined to go with City, which, come to think of it, probably does belong on the list.

Hometownboy: Bradley and Norton: I can’t think of any single work either of 'em have done that stands out (lots and lots of good stuff, but not much great stuff, if you know what I mean), but at the same time, they’re early female SF authors and were influential in their own way(and Bradley was a very well known Fan). Plus I have a fondness for the original version of The Bloody Sun. I dunno. Something by one of 'em should be on.

I’d say that Dickson doesn’t quite make the grade.

Tamerlane again: Slan is important for the whole “Fans are Slans” thing, plus we don’t have any examples of '50s “Mutants in Hiding” thing (unless one of the '50s anthologies contains Shiras’s “In Hiding” from the book Children of the Atom and I think one of 'em does). We need an example and Slan is as archtypical of the genre as it gets. It should probably be in.

Scarred: I’m torn. I want a hard SF story. Hogan’s came first, but I think Dragon’s Egg by Forward is better. Certainly one of the two. Opinions? Gateway for me, stands the test of time, but more importantly the “scrapbook” format was fairly groundbreaking for SF.

Fenris

85

Fenris, is there a limit to the number of stories that can go on the list? You keep talking about dropping some stories - why not just keep them all?

Also, please consider some of the shorter works in their own right rather than as part of a collection or longer series. Some of the very best SF stories are less than novel length. Everyone that’s mentioned it on this thread (and other threads), for example, has said that the novella version of Flowers for Algernon is far superior to the novel. You already have some short works in your original list. I reiterate them here and throw some others into the mix:
[ul]
[li] Flowers for Algernon - Keyes[/li][li] Neutron Star - Niven[/li][li] I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream - Ellision[/li][li] “Repent, Harlequin!” Said the Ticktockman - Ellison[/li][li] The Sentinel - Clarke[/li][li] A Meeting With Medusa - Clarke[/li][li] Something by James Tiptree, Jr (Houston, Houston Do You Read? perhaps)[/li][li] Riders of the Purple Wage - Farmer[/li][li] Nightfall - Asimov[/li][li] The Last Question - Asimov (everyone remembers the story, even though they’ve forgotten the title)[/li][/ul]
That’s about the best I can do at the moment.

86

I’m probably not qualified to sit in on this discussion, as I’ve been very lax in my S-F reading this last decade, but I’d like to nominate my own personal favorite, Hal Clement’s Mission of Gravity in the hard SciFi category.

That’s all. Carry on.

87

Terminus Est: Yeah, I don’t actually have a particular number of books, but I want to try to limit the list. It stops being meaningful if there are tons of books. It’ll also scare people away if it’s too long.

Regarding short stories, it’s not fair to people to ask them to dig up individual short stories or truly obscure collections. They’re just too hard to find. I’m all in favor of short stories, but I want 'em in collections.

Fenris

88

Ok, here’s version 2.0 of the list. If you see something I’ve said I’d put on and missed , lemme know. Also if you see something that really should be added (or subtracted) let me know
Pre-Campbell:

Dante’s Inferno-Dante Alighieri (World building)
Gulliver’s Travels-Jonathon Swift
Frankenstein-Mary Shelly
From the Earth To the Moon-Jules Verne
20,000 Leagues under the Sea-Jules Verne
The Lost World-Arthur Conan Doyle
Flatland-Donald Abbot
War of the Worlds-H.G. Wells
The Time Machine-H.G. Wells
Island of Dr. Moreau-H.G. Wells
Tom Swift and His Motor-Cycle or Fun and Adventures on the Road-Victor Appleton II (early boy’s SCIENCE-adventure, predecessor to Heinlein’s juvies)
A Princess of Mars-Edgar Rice Burroughs
Ralph 124C41±Hugo Gernsback (the guy defined Science Fiction for 20 years or so. He inspired Heinlein, Weinbaum, “Doc” Smith, etc. It’s not a great book, but it’s important. Plus it’s loads of fun)
First Lensman OR Skylark of Space by E.E. “Doc” Smith (I prefer Skylark)
A Martian Odessey and Other Stories- Stanley Weinbaum
Before the Golden Age-Isaac Asmiov ed.
R.U.R.-Karal Capek
At the Mountains of Madness-H.P. Lovecraft
The Moon Pool-A. Merritt
Last and First Men-Olaf Stapledon

Campbell to the 50’s

The Past Through Tomorrow-Robert Heinlein
I, Robot-Isaac Asimov
The SF Hall of Fame, Vol 1, 2a and 2b-Ben Bova (ed)
Adventures in Time and Space-Healy, McComas(?) ed
Faharenheit 451-Ray Bradbury
Illustrated Man-Ray Bradbury
The Unknown-Stanley Schmidt ed. (Reprints from Unknown Magazine)
Foundation-Isaac Asimov
Foundation and Empire-Isaac Asimov
Second Foundation-Isaac Asimov
1984-George Orwell
Lest Darkness Fall-L. Sprague DeCamp

The '50s- Juvies and more
Have Spacesuit, Will Travel-Robert Heinlein (The archtypical juvinile S.F. book)
Puppet Masters-Robert Heinlein
The Stars, My Destination-Alfred Bester
Caves of Steel-Isaac Asimov
The Lovers-Philip Jose Farmer
Nightmares and Geezenstacks-Fredric Brown
Atlas Shrugged-Ayn Rand (because, regardless of what you thought of it, it influenced a LOT of people)
Gladiator-at-Law-Fredrik Pohl/C.M. Kornbluth
A Treasury of Great Science Fiction vol 1 and 2-Anthony Boucher ed
Day of the Triffids-John Wyndham
The Body Snatchers-Jack Finney
Selected Stories of Theodore Sturgeon-Theodore Sturgeon
More Than Human-Theodore Sturgeon
Brainwave Poul Anderson
City-Clifford Simak
Slan-A.E. Van Vogt
Mission of Gravity-Hal Clement

The 60’s
Starship Troopers-Robert Heinlein
Stranger in a Strange Land-Robert Heinlein
Moon is a Harsh Misteress-Robert Heinlein
Canticle for Leibowitz-Walter M. Miller, Jr
Sirens of Titan-Kurt Vonnegut (maybe. I don’t like Vonnegut, I hated Cat’s Cradle but I had to choose something
Davy-Edgar Pangborn
Solaris-Stanislaw Lem
Norstrilla-Cordwainder Smith
Dune-Frank Herbert
The Hugo Winners Vol 1-Isaac Asimov (great collection and contains the short version of “Flowers for Algernon” by Daniel Keyes)
Lord of Light-Roger Zelazny
Pilgrimmage: The Book of the People-Zenna Henderson
The People Trap- Robert Sheckley
Babel-17-Samuel Delany
Dangerous Visions-Harlan Ellison ed
Shockwave Rider-Frank Brunner
Childhood’s End-Arthur C. Clarke
Expedition To Earth(?)-Arthur C. Clarke
The (original version of) Bloody Sun-Marion Zimmer Bradley

The 70’s
A Wrinkle in Time-Madyline L’Engle
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep-Philip K. Dick
The Dispossessed OR The Left hand of Darkness-Urusula K. LeGuin
Dragonflight-Anne McCaffery (important for how much it inspired-note that the story first appeared in '67)
Forever War-Joe Haldeman
Mote In God’s Eye-Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven
Ringworld-Larry Niven
Neutron Star-Larry Niven
Deathbird Stories-Harlan Ellison
The Essential Ellison-Harlan Ellison
Gateway-Fredrik Pohl
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy-Douglas Adams
Rendevous With Rama-Arthur C. Clarke
Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon-Spider Robinson (The first story “The Guy With the Eyes” was a breakthrough story for Analog. It was a complete divergence for them.)
Midnight at the Well of Souls-Jack Chalker (My last self-indulgent choice. I loved this book.)

The 80’s
The Barbie Murders (AKA Picnic on Nearside) OR Persistance of Vision-John Varley
Uplift War OR Startide Rising-David Brin
Ender’s Game-Orson Scott Card
Neuromancer-William Gibson (Yuk: I don’t care for this, but it’s important to the genre)
True Names and other Dangers-Vernor Vinge (Waaay out of print and collectible, but important)
Mirrorshades-Bruce Sterling ed
Bloodchild-Octavia Butler
Dragon’s EggRobert Forward
The 90s and beyond
Quarantine-Greg Egan
Hyperion-Dan Simmons
Vacuum Diagrams-Stephen Baxter
A Fire Upon the Deep-Vernor Vinge
To Say Nothing of the Dog-Connie Willis
The Borders of Infinity-Lois McMaster Bujold
Guns of the South-Harry Turtledove
Dark Matter-Sheree R. Thomas
Note that I’ve changed the Bester to Stars My Destination since I just remembered that the Boucher anthology contains Demolished Man!

I also decided against going with Journey to the Center of the Earth because I did want to include a Doyle book and it didn’t make sense to have it AND Lost World.

Anyway, more comments, suggestions, cuts?

Also, if anyone has another good collection of early SF short stories (no series anthologies, please: one or two volumes, max) of '40s SF…

Fenris

89

Fenris: On first glance, you left off Cyteen and Forge of God. Also are you sure Brainwave dates to the '50’s?

Also, I’m still resistant ( mildly :slight_smile: ) to Bradley. And, dude…Still clinging to Chalker :stuck_out_tongue: ?

  • Tamerlane
90

I just put Cyteen on. I’m almost positive Brainwave is from the '50s (I’m back, I just checked the ISFDB and it was 1954.), I really think we need an early Bradley OR an early Norton, and I think Bradley’s stood the test of time better, I think Blood Music is far more important than Forge but I like Forge better. Opinions?

And <kidding> I gave up my Baum book. I gave up Robots Have No Tales (because it’s rarer than hell and it’s not fair to include a book that no one can find), I gave up Citizen of the Galaxy AND Tunnel in the Sky. I was even bullied into adding a <blech> Delany book! I’M KEEPING MY CHALKER, DAMMIT! </kidding> :stuck_out_tongue: :wink: :smiley:

Besides, I stand by my “it signaled a return to Big Dumb Fun Space-Opera in the late '70’s” rationalization. (are you buying it?)

Fenris

91

Fenris:

Oooookayyyyy…Easy, now…Just put down the knife… :stuck_out_tongue:

And no, I still don’t buy it :smiley: .

Re: Bear - Well here’s where my preferences kick in. I think Bear is slightly more important for his recent work as a whole, than any individual effort. Given that I prefer Forge of God to Eon, and Eon to Blood Music. But I’m quite willing to be talked out of that position.

I disagree that Norton deserves a place at all and I’m still equivocal about Bradley. Again, not to disparage them ( or Chalker :stuck_out_tongue: ), they’re fine writers, but very uneven. I guess Bradley ( despite her assinine repudiations in her last, failing years ) should be given some kudos for being one of the first to attempt to seriously address sexual and gender identity issues in a sensitive fashion in sf. I suppose for that alone, perhaps she deserves a slot.

And another observation - Are you going with the omnibus The Essential Ellison? I still support it’s inclusion, omnibus or not. But if you do include it, Deathbird Stories* is largely superfluous.

Oh, yeah - Read Vance’s The Dragonmasters. It’s available ( or was ) as a standalone and it’s well worth it, IMHO. Not tremendously deep in one sense, but given the recent burgeoning of the genetic debate ( and especially the more hysterical arguments put forth ), it’s a bit prescient in a curious way.

  • Tamerlane
92

Fenris writes:

> The 70’s
> A Wrinkle in Time-Madyline L’Engle
> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep-Philip K. Dick

There’s a misspelling here and both books are actually from the '60’s. A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle came out in 1962. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep came out in 1968.

93

Easily one of the best SF lists (v 2.0) around. I’ll refer the teen down the street to it… she has just now discovered SF and has been raiding my shelves weekly…

I’d add at least one Neal Stephenson work to that list - SnowCrash, The Diamond Age, or Cryptonomicon (pick yer own favorite.)

I’d also go with Willis’ Doomsday Book instead of To Say Nothing of the Dog.

Kress: Beggars In Spain.

Howzabout Thomas Pynchon? Or do we then just cross the line into high weirdness?

Whoever was kvetching about Heinlein’s Farnham’s Freehold - I’m with you. This is the only Heinlein book I can’t stand. Bear in mind that the Heinlein juvies were the first “real” books I ever read and that I am on my third or fourth paperback copies of Moon Is a Harsh Mistress and Time Enough For Love (darn flimsy books keep falling apart).

94

That may be a function of age. Those of us who were SF-hungry kids in the early 60s remember Norton fondly. For one thing, her stuff was available in our small town on a regular basis AND she stimulated my sense of wonder very nicely, thankyouverymuch. (No, I’m not arguing that her high output alone gives her status. There were plenty of Perry Rhodan <gag> and John Norman “Gor” books <double gag> available in later years and their quantity didn’t improve their quality one bit.)

The problem could be that in the later years, she pretty much concentrated on fantasy, expanding the original Witch World series to 22 books(!) and co-writing with a number of different authors.

Check out this site for a list.

I submit that “Star Man’s Son” (also known as “Daybreak–2250 A.D.” was a seminal book in the post-Apocalyptic style (originally written in 1952). For me, personally,
the two book series (duology?) “The Stars are Ours” and “Star Born” (also from the 50s) had an incredible impact and will bear rereading. Great stuff!

Besides, it ain’t just me: The lady won a Hugo, a Nebula Grandmaster,and a TON more See this list.
By the way, If I’ve counted correctly, there are 100 books or stories on the 2.0 list, a nice round number which I propose we call the “Fenris 100.” Of those, 91 are by male authors, which probably parallels the actual statistical universe of SF writers as a whole.

Hometownboy

95

Aaarrgh! I’ve just done a quick count, and that’s !!38!! books I need to add to my collection. Not to mention the extra expense of the wig, false nose, fake beard and dark glasses, for buying the Chalker book…

OK, I’ve read most of the ones I don’t actually own, but, still… that is one comprehensive list. I think I’ll print it out and start hitting the second-hand bookshops.

96

Where’s Eric Russell??!?
I can’t find him on the list.
He has got to be on the list. Help, somebody? He is the best humor/hard SF writer I’ve read, and from the UK… not sure I am spelling the name just right, because my book got stolen/borrowed for keeps.

97

I needed a list like this. I thought I’d exhausted the classic SF section of my library. Now I see that I’ve got a ways to go. I’ve only read about 60% of this list. Does that make me slightly well-read or partially well-read?

I have mixed feelings about Hyperion appearing on this list. On one hand, it’s a great book, almost a collection of interwoven short stories. On the other hand, the ending SUCKED. Very possibly the first book I’ve read with absolutely no denouement. It’s as though the author had a couple thousand pages and had to figure out how to break it into separate books. Well, Fall Of Hyperion is my vacation book this year, so I hope by the end of July I’ll have more of a sense of resolution. Otherwise, I write off the rest of the series.

98

Fenris Teeny tiny correction, which one of your “v2.0” posts reminded me about: Boucher’s A Treasury of Great Science Fiction (volume ii) contains The Stars My Destination, not * The Demolished Man *. Dunno if you wanted just one of the two or not, but there you go.

99

Great list, Fenris! Great list. I’m going have to see about beefing up my collection.

I see your point about the short stories - but if the story was truly influential, it would have been included in any number of anthologies. As you already know, the ISFDB is a great resource for this. May I suggest listing, within a larger anthology, the shorter works that you regard as being particularly influential? Someone may not have a particular anthology, but if they’re a trufan they might have other anthologies that contain the various shorter works. For instance, I’ve read both The Demolished Man and More Than Human as part of larger collection that contained both those novels as well as dozens of shorter works. I wouldn’t consider that collection as being particularly influential - the stories were just thrown in with no particular rhyme or reason, but the individual works within it were. (And I can’t remember the title of the collection. I’d look it up, but that particular book is halfway around the world.)

Of course, certain anthologies (such as Dangerous Visions) can be regarded as being influential in and of themselves. You did have that one in there, didn’t you? Ah, I see that you did.

100

Tamerlane: I’m still leaning more towards Blood Music (mainly 'cause of the controversity) than Forge. Let’s see how everyone else votes.

I’ll stand by Bradley and/or Norton. After C.L. Moore and Zenna Henderson, they were some of the first female SF authors. That’s worthy of note, regardless of literary merit.

I’ve decided “No omnibus editions”, but I’m willing to add another Ellison. I’d like one more collection.

asheb Diamond Age should be on the list. (I prefer Snowcrash but DA is more important.

I’m getting worn down by the the Pro-Doomsday Book forces. Why do you prefer it? Dog has the “First intentional comedy to win a Hugo” distinction. What does Doomsday have?

Kress: Still on the maybe list. I love her stuff, but…

Pynchon, more high weirdness than SF to me.

Hometownboy: I’m convinced. Norton’s on…Star Man’s Son (AKA Daybreak–2250 A.D) sounds like our best bet.

[bu]Steve**: Seriously, Midnight At The Well of Souls is an excellent book. Don’t judge Chalker’s early stuff by his later schlock.

(Which ones haven’t you read?)

Ziatrice: Dammit, I wasn’t going to add any more non-debated authors to the list and you mention one I’ve got to add. Chalker, Foster, and about a half-dozen others have mentioned Eric Frank Russell as an influence. <grumble> Look for Wasp or The Space Willies or Sinister Barrier on version 3.0.

Everyone NO MORE ADDITIONS! This list is getting way too long!
Unless, like…it’s someone really important or something.

And I’m looking for a few more good, easily available wide-ranging anthologies.

Fenris