# What Exactly Did Henry Kissinger Do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181 "2020-08-27T20:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/21 "2023-06-02T17:46:45Z")
About Kissinger and Pinochet, in the 1990s or early 2000s, I read something in a well-regarded newspaper about a comment of his. I’ve just had a look at eight Google pages of hits, and the two quotes below are very close to what I remember reading. Neither is documented in any way, and I don’t remember the details of what I read, other than the newspaper being well regarded at that time. So he might not have even said anything like this. That said, here are the quotes: [Quote 1](https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1090396017885933568) > “I see no reason why a certain country (ie Chile) should be allowed to go Marxist merely because its people are irresponsible.” [Quote 2](https://aadl.org/node/199427) > Privately, in the National Security Council, he said, “I see no reason why Chile should be allowed to go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people.” Pinochet was indeed a horrible man. I recall Margaret Thatcher fawning over him back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/22 "2023-06-10T22:50:02Z")
From the author of Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon, and the Destruction of Cambodia [Kissinger and I were once at odds, but let him speak](https://thespectator.com/uncategorized/kissinger-odds-speak/) > [@](#): > > Before the event, 30 student groups, including NYU Against Fascism and Amnesty International at NYU, had demanded that it be cancelled because Kissinger was ‘the morally reprehensible poster child of U.S. militarism and imperialism.’ They seem to have missed the point that he is one of the rare men in public life who has actually risked his life in the fight against fascism. . . . > > Since _Sideshow_ was published, I have written more than once that ‘those of us who opposed the American war in Indochina should be extremely humble in the face of the appalling aftermath: a form of genocide in Cambodia and horrific tyranny in Vietnam and Laos after the communists defeated the US in 1975.’ > > Some years ago, I saw Dr Kissinger at an event in London. He stopped to talk to me though his wife, Nancy, strode past. He said, ‘Ah, Mr Shawcross, you see — for me it is the Thirty Years’ War, but for Nancy it will always be the Hundred Years’ War.’ > > I suspect that Mrs Kissinger thought that I had turned a policy disagreement over Cambodia into a moral crusade, which went on to fuel the ‘war criminal’ accusations that have been made since. > > That was not my intention, but she has a point. I regret the tone of the debate that my book helped engender. I stand by the evidence I gathered in _Sideshow_ in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/23 "2023-06-10T23:20:21Z")
As usual, East Timor is forgotten among the doctor’s sins: “…Jakarta’s brutal suppression of the independence movement in East Timor was a development that neither Ford nor Kissinger wanted people to remember about their time in power. That the two decided on a course of action of dubious legality and that resulted in the slaughter of thousands of Timorese may well have also discouraged further reflection, at least in public.” - [East Timor Revisited](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/24 "2023-06-11T02:12:35Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > As usual, East Timor is forgotten among the doctor’s sins: There are many books about the East Timor civil war and the Indonesian invasion. Surely Kissinger is mentioned. I do not understand what is forgotten. Nancy Kissinger might fairly say that what is forgotten is that Suharto was the actual war criminal. In retrospect, Kissinger should have told Suharto not to invade. But wouldn’t Suharto would have invaded, and used the U.S.-made arms at his disposal, and been equally brutal, anyway? Given the nature of the U.S. as a military power, any President, or chief foreign policy advisor to the president, is going to be labeled a war criminal on the internet. It even has happened with [Barack Obama](https://harvardpolitics.com/obama-war-criminal/), who surely is not a cruel man. But when someone has that sort of job, they have an significant life and death impact. Labeling them all as war criminals (or all the Republicans) IMHO detracts from understanding of why they made decisions which had negative results. Despite what happened to his family, Kissinger treated the Germans under his military government, in 1945, well. And the many newspaper articles of his I have read do not leave the impression of a deranged killer. This suggests to me that the situations in the 1970’s need to be understood in historical context rather than dismissed as acts of a supreme criminal. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/25 "2023-06-11T02:36:56Z")
This book, sans dust jacket of course, is a perennial item at estate sales and used book stores, if they’re old enough. I finally decided to read it recently, and am pretty strongly convinced that if these books had not hit the best-seller lists back in the late 1950s and early 1960s, we would not have gotten wrapped up in Vietnam. [https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/dr-tom-dooleys-three-great-books/7875425/item/13455985/?utm\_source=google&utm\_medium=cpc&utm\_campaign=pmax\_high\_vol\_frontlist\_under\_%2410&utm\_adgroup=&utm\_term=&utm\_content=&gclid=CjwKCAjwvpCkBhB4EiwAujULMkYISmpaG53zaibxIc2Ia3KTu37GCkweqQtIgDuawvsY81JZHwv0bhoC-T8QAvD\_BwE#idiq=13455985&edition=8978965](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/dr-tom-dooleys-three-great-books/7875425/item/13455985/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pmax_high_vol_frontlist_under_%2410&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAjwvpCkBhB4EiwAujULMkYISmpaG53zaibxIc2Ia3KTu37GCkweqQtIgDuawvsY81JZHwv0bhoC-T8QAvD_BwE#idiq=13455985&edition=8978965) All I knew going in was that Dr. Dooley’s work was secular, even though he was a devout Catholic, and he died very young (34) and was gay. I had not known (and obviously didn’t find out there) that he was basically a CIA shill and was willing to do that in exchange for not getting a dishonorable discharge when his, ahem, deviance was discovered. I think he did a lot of good things, and did a lot of not-good things either; this appears to have gotten the ball rolling. I remember Ann Landers describing the Vietnam War as a response to “a regional skirmish that was none of our business” and I can’t say I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/26 "2023-06-11T21:17:08Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > There are many books about the East Timor civil war and the Indonesian invasion. Surely Kissinger is mentioned. I do not understand what is forgotten… The relevant context for my comment was this thread and its consideration of Dr. K’s career. Before my post, neither East Timor nor Indonesia was mentioned. Perhaps “neglected” would have been a better choice of word than “forgotten.” > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > In retrospect, Kissinger should have told Suharto not to invade. But wouldn’t Suharto would have invaded, and used the U.S.-made arms at his disposal, and been equally brutal, anyway? If Dr. K was able to give Suharto a “green light” to invade, it certainly seems reasonable to assume he could have given a “red light” instead. What might have come after that is speculative, but “(a)n East Timor Truth Commission later concluded that U.S. political and military support for Suharto was ‘fundamental to the Indonesian invasion and occupation.’” - [A Quarter Century of U.S. Support for Occupation in East Timor](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB174/) > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Given the nature of the U.S. as a military power, any President, or chief foreign policy advisor to the president, is going to be labeled a war criminal on the internet. It even has happened with [Barack Obama](https://harvardpolitics.com/obama-war-criminal/), who surely is not a cruel man. But when someone has that sort of job, they have an significant life and death impact. Labeling them all as war criminals (or all the Republicans) IMHO detracts from understanding of why they made decisions which had negative results. I put no labels on Dr. K. I merely added hitherto-unacknowledged data points to the discussion of his accomplishments. I agree that top diplomats do not have an easy job and sometimes make bad decisions with catastrophic results. Taking responsibility for such decisions is a critical consideration when it comes to assessing the character and integrity of a top diplomat. Not taking responsibility is an equally critical sign. From my previous link in post #23: “…on several occasions Kissinger has explicitly denied that he ever had substantive discussions of East Timor with Suharto, much less having consented to Indonesian plans.([2](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/#2)) The new evidence contradicts Kissinger’s statements: Indonesian plans for the invasion of East Timor were indeed discussed with Suharto, and Ford and Kissinger gave them the green light.” > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This suggests to me that the situations in the 1970’s need to be understood in historical context… Attempts at genocide tend to create their own contexts, subsuming other considerations with their scale, bloodshed and horror. Dr. K’s actions indisputably contributed to what many scholars call a “genocide” in East Timor. My impression is that communist insurgents in Indonesia _ca._ 1974-99 posed no credible threat to the U.S. (or to Indonesia), but for more than 25 years, we gave the Indonesians lots of military aid to fight the commies, much of which they used to invade and plunder East Timor. Given the death toll - around 150,000 from murder, disease and starvation, with Indonesian forces and their auxiliaries held responsible for 70% of the killings by the aforementioned Truth Commission - it is challenging for me to see how any historical context could justify or even rationalize Dr. K’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/27 "2023-06-11T21:46:25Z")
At the risk of contributing to a zombie thread, I wanted to share a multi-episode series that the always informative and entertaining _Behind the Bastards_ podcast did on Kissinger. - [Part 1](https://overcast.fm/+4cUMuxpdc) - [Part 2](https://overcast.fm/+4cUPH7oP8) - [Part 3](https://overcast.fm/+4cUOjvjLY) - [Part 4](https://overcast.fm/+4cUPWgvdM) - [Part 5](https://overcast.fm/+4cUPxPdq0) - [Part 6](https://overcast.fm/+4cUNO-U9w) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/28 "2023-06-14T12:42:55Z")
Christopher Hitchens wrote a book called “The Trial of Henry Kissinger” and honestly it lays the case out really well. It’s very short - it really only barely qualifies as a “book,” maybe 120, 130 pages, but he’s writing it to do a job, and when it’s done, the book ends. A very solid read. Highly recommend. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/29 "2023-07-18T19:00:03Z")
Surprising to me: > **[Henry Kissinger meets China’s defence minister in surprise visit to Beijing](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/18/henry-kissinger-meets-china-defence-minister-beijing)** > > Ex-US secretary of state’s meeting with Li Shangfu comes amid hopes of improved ties between two countries ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/30 "2023-07-20T20:47:36Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Surprising to me: > > [Henry Kissinger meets China’s defence minister in surprise visit to Beijing | China | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/18/henry-kissinger-meets-china-defence-minister-beijing) Last month [Secretary Blinken attended former Secretary Kissinger’s 100th birthday party](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4037547-state-department-asked-about-birthday-party-what-does-secretary-blinken-like-about-henry-kissinger/). I think it slightly unlikely that Kissinger’s visit lacked any coordination the the current administration. And Kissinger [met President Xi today](https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-president-xi-meets-with-henry-kissinger-beijing-2023-07-20/). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/31 "2023-07-20T23:17:15Z")
I bet Shawcross regrets his book. Read the neutral biography of him on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shawcross) and a casual observer will note that he has since moved so far to the right on every issue that he would be a regular on Fox News if an American. I personally cannot imagine how anybody who lived through the Nixon Administration can think of him as anything other than a war criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/32 "2023-07-20T23:58:34Z")
BTW, you might have expected Henry Kissinger to have met with the Chinese foreign minister, but [he’s been missing for several weeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Gang#Minister_of_Foreign_Affairs). ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/33 "2023-07-20T23:59:53Z")
Looks like this wasn’t yet linked in the thread: [Henry Kissinger: Good or Evil? 10 historians assess the controversial statesman’s legacy](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/henry-kissinger-history-legacy-213237/) > [@](#): > > Kissinger is overrated, finally, by his enemies on the hard left, who use shrill and absurdly inapt labels like “war criminal” because they don’t like his foreign policy decisions. Nixon and Kissinger deserve severe condemnation for many elements of their foreign policy, but to suggest that Kissinger is the equivalent of Hitler or Milosevic is to engage in juvenile sloganeering. – \*David Greenberg, Professor of History, Journalism and Media Studies, Rutgers University > [@](#): > > I am afraid that by the standards some of his critics have applied to Kissinger numerous post-1945 U.S. statesmen could be accused of crimes against humanity (and that applies perhaps to the vast majority of modern great powers’ leaders). What the archival record has so far revealed is that Kissinger was often simplistic, binary and even uninformed during his tenure as national security adviser and secretary of state. His often broadcasted realism notwithstanding, he tended to adhere to a dogmatic, zero-sum-game of the international game. In short, he wasn’t a war criminal, he wasn’t a very deep or sophisticated thinker, he rarely challenged the intellectual vogues of the time (even because it would have meant to challenge those in power, something he always was—and still is—reluctant to do) . . . – Mario Del Pero, Professor of International History, Sciences Po That last may explain why Blinken might have thought it perfectly safe to OK Kissinger talking to Xi today. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/34 "2023-07-21T01:25:25Z")
None of those arguments hold water with me. So Kissinger isn’t a war criminal because: -Everyone did it -Critics are unfairly labeling him a war criminal over a disagreement over his foreign policy decisions (good point, the only people who call Pol Pot a mass murderer are people who disagree with his domestic policy decisions) -He isn’t as bad as Hitler or Milosevic – yeah there are degrees of war crimes ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/35 "2023-07-26T00:31:10Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [SeamusMuadhen Trock posts](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seamusmuadhen-trock-posts/987599/8) ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/36 "2023-07-25T22:20:09Z")
Seeing how many of the original posters of this thread are banned in the meantime shows what a dangerous person Kissinger is. I would like to have written _was_ instead of _is_, but there you go. The kind of person who gives the concept of _Realpolitik_ a bad rap. He had a talent for finding justifications for cruel political decisions in the name of a higher good. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/37 "2023-09-02T00:31:16Z")
I guess it’s true that the good die young. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/38 "2023-09-02T01:38:37Z")
Can he still talk? Even 10 or 15 years ago his voice was pretty rough. He sounds like he gargles broken glass, with a Draino chaser. Pinochet couldn’t have been all bad, anyone who gives one way helicopter rides to communists has the right idea. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/39 "2023-09-02T01:45:28Z")
He could speak a couple of months ago, when he turned a hundred years old. He was interviewed multiple places at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181/40 "2023-09-03T19:47:34Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Pinochet couldn’t have been all bad, anyone who gives one way helicopter rides to communists has the right idea. Ok, so you are fond of dictatorship. Noted. Salvador Allende opposed dictatorship and supported parliamentary democracy. Salvador Allende was not a communist, nor was his main base of support. Within Chile, the Communist Party of the time was generally moderate, not advocating revolution and advocating cooperation with the centrist Christian Democratic Party, in contrast with another hard left faction. > **[Salvador Allende](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende)** > > Salvador Guillermo Allende Gossens (US: /ɑːˈjɛndeɪ, -di/ ah-YEND-ay, -⁠ee, UK: /æˈ-, aɪˈɛn-/, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Latin American Spanish: \[salβaˈðoɾ ɣiˈʝeɾmo aˈʝende ˈɣosens\]; 26 June 1908 – 11 September 1973) was a socialist politician, who served as the 28th president of Chile from 1970 until his death in Allende's i... Pinochet’s atrocities covered 27,255 tortured, 2,279 executed and 300,000 exiles out of a country of a little under 10 million. > **[Human rights abuses in Chile under Augusto Pinochet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Chile_under_Augusto_Pinochet)** > > Human rights abuses in Chile under Augusto Pinochet were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression, and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the military dictatorship of Chile under General Augusto Pinochet from 1973 to 1990. > According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonme... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-henry-kissinger-do/919181.md?page=1)