# What exactly did Hillary Clinton do that was so bad with the email scandal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264 "2016-02-05T20:30:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/21 "2016-02-06T17:15:31Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > **I understand the GOP wants to tear her down as much as possible and this is more a political ploy than anything else,** but why are they choosing this particular subject to get riled up about? Is there any evidence that she peddled classified information to the press or to US enemies? No, and you answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/22 "2016-02-06T17:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Grumman** : > > And there is an important difference between Bush and Obama that makes any wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton far worse: Obama’s attacks on whistleblowers. If the Bush administration had a casual approach to information security but it also did not abuse its power to persecute those who violate information security for good reason, that is far more forgiveable than if the guy who used the Espionage Act of 1917 more than all his predecessors put together doesn’t hold his buddy Clinton to the same standard. OK, so Obama is using the Espionage Act of 1917. Under what law was the Bush administration acting when it outed Valerie Plame? > [@](#): > > Quoth **Iggy** : > > If John Q. Public receives an email containing legally questionable content AND he then notifies the relevant legal authorities in a prompt manner then that is very different than if he makes no notifications and uses said material. The “relevant legal authority” in this case being the Secretary of State? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/23 "2016-02-06T17:17:18Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Does the OP really think it’s ok to have highly classified documents at home as long as you keep it kinda hidden in your house somewhere? Really? > > According to the news she had Top Secret SCI emails. That is as high a classification as it gets. I’m a military Officer. I’m 100% certain that if I had TS SCI at my house the following would happen: > > -My clearance would instantly be suspended and ultimately removed > -I’d be be Court Martial and be convicted > -This could be one of the rare times when I could loose my pension > -I’d spend time in jail > -When released I’d never have a clearance again, never have a government job again and I’d have a felony conviction and God know what type of job I’d ever have again > > Within the government where I work, it’s beyond belief that people think it’s OK to have Secret, let alone TS or TS SCI material at once house. Mind boggling. What about sending classified email to your AOL account? Is that Ok? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/24 "2016-02-06T18:02:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > What about sending classified email to your AOL account? Is that Ok? “But Colin Powell did it too!” is not a valid argument. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/25 "2016-02-06T18:13:20Z")
And doesn’t answer the question. Is it OK to send classified emails to an AOL account under the rules/laws/regs which **Spifflog** cited? The “Colin Powell did it too” is a valid arguement as it demonstrates how this is nothing but a partisan, political witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/26 "2016-02-06T18:27:06Z")
Well they just found out about the Powell emails. Anyway, no one is saying it’s ok. It’s clearly not. The issue to large degree is just how recklessly/knowingly it was done. The fact that a seasoned handler of secret info like Powell could make similar mistakes is an argument against it being about Hillary necessarily being stupid or careless. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/27 "2016-02-06T20:06:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The “Colin Powell did it too” is a valid arguement. I strongly disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/28 "2016-02-06T20:10:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I strongly disagree. What evidence do you have that Hillary Clinton’s actions were worse than Powell’s? Are you willing to support as much congressional inquiry into Powell as has been directed at Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/29 "2016-02-06T20:16:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The “Colin Powell did it too” is a valid arguement as it demonstrates how this is nothing but a partisan, political witch hunt. This is insanely poor defense. Even if what Colin Powell did was wrong, have you possibly considered the magnitude of the difference. Powell has 2 emails that are now considered classified sent to a personal account. Rice’s staff, not her, had 10 emails that are now considered classified. Clinton has 1,200 and counting that were considered classified including top secret classifications. Further, is there anyone who doesn’t think the reason she did this was to avoid FOIA disclosures? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/30 "2016-02-06T20:23:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What evidence do you have that Hillary Clinton’s actions were worse than Powell’s? Are you willing to support as much congressional inquiry into Powell as has been directed at Clinton? The sheer numbers and the classification. They’re not even in the same universe. Seriously you think 2 classified emails is equivalent to hundreds of classified and tens of top secret? I have no doubt that some stuff is over-classified with the information largely being in the public domain already. Having said that, isn’t there a far greater chance that Powell’s 2 classified emails are of this variety than the 1,200+ Clinton emails that we know includes some with top secret classifications? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/31 "2016-02-06T20:29:05Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > The sheer numbers and the classification. They’re not even in the same universe. Seriously you think 2 classified emails is equivalent to hundreds of classified and tens of top secret? So do you support a congressional investigative effort toward Powell that is about 1% of that directed toward Clinton? > [@](#): > > I have no doubt that some stuff is over-classified with the information largely being in the public domain already. Having said that, isn’t there a far greater chance that Powell’s 2 classified emails are of this variety than the 1,200+ Clinton emails that we know includes some with top secret classifications? I could buy that, accepting these numbers for the sake of argument, Clinton had greater opportunity for mishandling, but what’s the evidence that she did more mishandling than Powell? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/32 "2016-02-06T20:34:39Z")
According to a recent New York Times story, it sounds like the current count of classified Clinton emails is 1,564 with 18 secret, and 22 top secret. They are reviewing 3,700 more, so these counts will probably change. These are emails both received by and sent by Clinton. Powell has 2 marked confidential and he disputes that they should have that classification. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/33 "2016-02-06T20:39:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So do you support a congressional investigative effort toward Powell that is about 1% of that directed toward Clinton? No, I think the FBI investigation is sufficient and less likely to be a partisan witch hunt. I don’t support a congressional investigation into this issue at all. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I could buy that, accepting these numbers for the sake of argument, Clinton had greater opportunity for mishandling, but what’s the evidence that she did more mishandling than Powell? I don’t really understand your question. Doesn’t the fact that we’re talking 2 versus 1,500+ count as pretty damn good evidence that there’s more mishandling all on its own? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/34 "2016-02-06T20:42:16Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I don’t really understand your question. Doesn’t the fact that we’re talking 2 versus 1,500+ count as pretty damn good evidence that there’s more mishandling all on its own? If that’s your standard of evidence, then I have to ask if you own guns. If you do, then there’s “pretty damn good evidence” that someone has been shot to death in your house, at least compared to _my_ house, since I don’t have any guns. Personally, I’d want to see some evidence that someone was actually shot, first. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/35 "2016-02-06T20:53:49Z")
You’ve lost me. You’re asking what evidence is there that Clinton mishandled confidential material more than Powell, right? Any email of confidential material would be an example of mishandling, particularly so if you are the one emailing it, right? So isn’t the fact that she mishandled so many more by sheer count evidence that she did more mishandling? The questions seems self-answering. Are you asking what evidence there is that he or she mishandled them more disregarding the initial mishandling? Like okay, we already have evidence that confidential information is now in their personal possession, now what matters is what they did with it? If Powell printed it out and left it in a coffee shop that would be evidence that he mishandled it more? I guess my answer who be that the two Powell emails were sent to him by ambassadors (sent to his assistant who then forwarded it to Powell). We have no idea what happened after that. Clinton on the other hand includes instances of her emailing classified stuff to her daughter. I’d say the latter sounds much worse to me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/36 "2016-02-06T21:08:28Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > This is insanely poor defense. Even if what Colin Powell did was wrong, have you possibly considered the magnitude of the difference. Powell has 2 emails that are now considered classified sent to a personal account. Rice’s staff, not her, had 10 emails that are now considered classified. Clinton has 1,200 and counting that were considered classified including top secret classifications. > > Further, is there anyone who doesn’t think the reason she did this was to avoid FOIA disclosures? It’s not so much a defense as a means to learn about the motives of those who pursue this issue. If their response is “what Colin and Condy did was different, and, anyway, it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as Hillary”, then that strongly implies that the purpose is purely political and should be addressed as such. If the response is “Top secret emails should never be transmitted by anything but the most secure systems, and the Colin and Condy transgressions demonstrate a shockingly cavalier attitude in the State Dept that may be institutional, beyond Hillary Clinton, and it all needs to be investigated”, that implies a principled stand. That’s it. Not at all a defense, just an exploration of motives. Given that further reading shows that you are more interested in talking about the scale of the violations viz the three implies heavily as to which side you’re leaning… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/37 "2016-02-06T21:10:54Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > You’ve lost me. You’re asking what evidence is there that Clinton mishandled confidential material more than Powell, right? Any email of confidential material would be an example of mishandling, particularly so if you are the one emailing it, right? So isn’t the fact that she mishandled so many more by sheer count evidence that she did more mishandling? The questions seems self-answering. Only for the ones that ignore that bit of the constitution, that most Americans and the courts agree with, that ex-post facto punishments or laws are not what we should be about. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/38 "2016-02-06T21:15:58Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > You’ve lost me. You’re asking what evidence is there that Clinton mishandled confidential material more than Powell, right? Any email of confidential material would be an example of mishandling, particularly so if you are the one emailing it, right? So isn’t the fact that she mishandled so many more by sheer count evidence that she did more mishandling? The questions seems self-answering. > > Are you asking what evidence there is that he or she mishandled them more disregarding the initial mishandling? Like okay, we already have evidence that confidential information is now in their personal possession, now what matters is what they did with it? If Powell printed it out and left it in a coffee shop that would be evidence that he mishandled it more? I guess my answer who be that the two Powell emails were sent to him by ambassadors (sent to his assistant who then forwarded it to Powell). We have no idea what happened after that. Clinton on the other hand includes instances of her emailing classified stuff to her daughter. I’d say the latter sounds much worse to me. And what about the up to 22 million emails lost by the Bush WH, stored on RNC servers, that were deleted during a Congressional investigation in 2007? Are you interested in learning more about them? Or is it just Hillary’s “violations” in which your concerned? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/39 "2016-02-06T21:41:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Only for the ones that ignore that bit of the constitution, that most Americans and the courts agree with, that ex-post facto punishments or laws are not what we should be about. Regardless of whether or not there is a requirement to use a government email account, wouldn’t there always have been a requirement to safeguard confidential information. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264/40 "2016-02-06T21:41:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I strongly disagree. Why? Doesn’t it imply that there may be an institutional problem at the State Dept regarding email security, especially at the highest levels? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-hillary-clinton-do-that-was-so-bad-with-the-email-scandal/745264.md?page=3)