# What exactly did the Indiana GOP \*think\* was going to happen when they passed this anti-gay law? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378 "2015-03-30T23:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/321 "2015-04-03T04:41:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am very much in favor of free markets. > > My objection in this thread has been to the use of deception and misinformation in order to send false signals to the market. If you’re genuinely in favor of free markets (as am I), you should realize that deception and misinformation are practically built in. If the only signals to the market contained truth and honesty, the entire marketing and advertising industry would collapse overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/322 "2015-04-03T05:10:53Z")
How shit-kickers in Indana make money from [Hay Seeds](http://www.abc57.com/story/28700443/go-fund-me-account-raises-thousands-for-memories-pizza) by not serving Pizza to Gay Hoosiers . ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/323 "2015-04-03T05:12:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have documented, in this very thread, the specific factual errors that were in play. > > As a reminder, they were the rebuttals to the defense that the Indiana RFRA was largely similar to the federal RFRA and those passed by other states. > > Now, some people in this thread have conceded that misinformation was used, and gone on to make compelling cases against the Indiana RFRA using factual information and fair inferences derived therefrom, so I absolutely admit there is a ground to complain about it. > > But you cannot claim that misleading information was not used. it was, and I have cited it here. You have made it clear that you think the “it’s different” argument is a con, but this legal analysis of the legislative content of the Indiana bill arrives at a somewhat different conclusion. [What’s Really In Indiana’s Anti-Gay ‘Religious Liberty’ Bill: A Legal Analysis](http://www.towleroad.com/2015/04/whats-really-in-indianas-anti-gay-discrimination-bill.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/324 "2015-04-03T16:21:10Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You have made it clear that you think the “it’s different” argument is a con, but this legal analysis of the legislative content of the Indiana bill arrives at a somewhat different conclusion. > > [What’s Really In Indiana’s Anti-Gay ‘Religious Liberty’ Bill: A Legal Analysis](http://www.towleroad.com/2015/04/whats-really-in-indianas-anti-gay-discrimination-bill.html) Not really, it doesn’t. The second paragraph says that although it’s not word-for-word: > [@](#): > > Still, we have to be honest about the fact that through judicial interpretation, the federal RFRA has bloated to the point where it is nearing the explicit and astounding breadth of Indiana’s version. So, maybe it’s not the differences that we should be worried about. > . > . > . > But we will also see that it isn’t so much the textual differences as much as the timing and boldness of Indiana’s bigotry. What quotes from your link are you saying support the “it’s different” argument? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/325 "2015-04-03T18:03:25Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > How shit-kickers in Indana make money from [Hay Seeds](http://www.abc57.com/story/28700443/go-fund-me-account-raises-thousands-for-memories-pizza) by not serving Pizza to Gay Hoosiers . That’s a really bizarre story. The pizza parlor doesn’t cater any weddings. That’s what they said in another part of the interview. So of course they don’t cater gay weddings either. It’s not clear to me what the reporter asked them and what their answer was. It could be they were saying, “No, we wouldn’t cater a gay wedding [because we wouldn’t cater any wedding],” with the bracketed part left unsaid. I know that once many years ago I was interviewed by a reporter and he totally bamboozled me and left me looking like an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/326 "2015-04-03T18:36:51Z")
No, the manager was very clear in the original interview and in follow-up interviews: they would not deliver pizza to a gay wedding: [TMZ](http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/04/01/memories-pizza-closes-indiana-deny-service-gay-wedding) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/327 "2015-04-03T18:38:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, the manager was very clear in the original interview and in follow-up interviews: they would not deliver > pizza to a gay wedding: [Celebrity News | Entertainment News | TMZ.com](http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/04/01/memories-pizza-closes-indiana-deny-service-gay-wedding) And given the strangeness of the comment, it’s hard for me to believe they were not trying for publicity. Exactly to what end, I would only be guessing. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/328 "2015-04-03T18:54:44Z")
But it sure worked. GoFundMe for $142K or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/329 "2015-04-03T19:13:26Z")
> [@bup](#): > > But it sure worked. GoFundMe for $142K or whatever. Try three quarters of a million in one day. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/330 "2015-04-03T19:16:45Z")
> [@bup](#): > > But it sure worked. GoFundMe for $142K or whatever. Oh yeah it worked. Oral Roberts figured it out, too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/331 "2015-04-03T19:32:57Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You have made it clear that you think the “it’s different” argument is a con, but this legal analysis of the legislative content of the Indiana bill arrives at a somewhat different conclusion. > > [What’s Really In Indiana’s Anti-Gay ‘Religious Liberty’ Bill: A Legal Analysis](http://www.towleroad.com/2015/04/whats-really-in-indianas-anti-gay-discrimination-bill.html) Along with Bricker pointing out the second paragraph, here’s an analysis by a law professor that was involved in writing the Federal RFRA [Why Law Professor Douglas Laycock Supports Same-Sex Marriage and Indiana’s Religious Freedom Law](http://religionandpolitics.org/2015/04/01/why-law-professor-douglas-laycock-supports-same-sex-marriage-and-indianas-religious-freedom-law/) It’s a lengthy article. It’s bound to annoy both sides of the false dichotomy as he takes both sides to task in his comments. It’s also one of the better written analyses I’ve seen whether you agreed with his proposed solutions or not. Directly on the question of the differences between Indiana and Federal law (my bolding added): > [@](#): > > R&P: Critics argue that the Indiana law is unique compared to the federal and state RFRAs in that it extends protection to businesses and allows lawsuits to be brought by individuals and not just the government. Are those assessments fair and are these differences in Indiana’s law significant? > > DL: The assessments are not fair and the differences are not significant. The substantive standard in the Indiana and federal RFRAs is identical, word for word: If government substantially burdens a person’s exercise of religion, that burden must be the least restrictive means of furthering a compelling government interest. > > On businesses, both the Indiana RFRA and the federal RFRA protect any “person.” The Indiana RFRA defines “person” to include corporations. Federal law also defines “person” to include corporations, in the very first section of the United States Code, commonly called the Dictionary Act. \*\*So the only difference is that in Indiana, the definition appears in the same statute; in the federal RFRA, it appears in a different statute and a different section of the code. \*\*In 1998-99, when Congress debated re-enacting a version of the federal RFRA that could be applied to the states, all the leadership on both sides agreed that the language of the federal RFRA covered corporations. When the Supreme Court in Hobby Lobby held that the federal RFRA protects corporations, that was a perfectly straightforward reading of the words of the statute. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/332 "2015-04-03T19:35:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try three quarters of a million in one day. I can’t keep up. I bet thousands of small gifts don’t count as income, either. $750K free and clear. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/333 "2015-04-03T20:08:24Z")
Jeez. [A guy gets exonerated after spending more than 29 years on death row](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/anthony-ray-hinton-exonerated-alabama-death-row-inmate-freed-prison-n335251), but everyone’s sending money to the pizza owners. I’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/334 "2015-04-03T20:09:43Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Jeez. [A guy gets exonerated after spending more than 29 years on death row](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/anthony-ray-hinton-exonerated-alabama-death-row-inmate-freed-prison-n335251), but everyone’s sending money to the pizza owners. > > I’ll shut up now. Maybe he should go on TV and say he won’t perform gay weddings. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/335 "2015-04-03T20:11:54Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Nobody cares, dude. Respectfully, I do. I’ve lived in Indianapolis for 14 years now, and love being a “Citizen of no mean city\*”. This issue has reverberated in my community for several weeks now, and every report of a company or municipality pulling their workforce, tourism, or convention dollars out is heartbreaking. There has been massive miscommunication and misinformation coming from both sides on this, both intentional and unintentional. While I very rarely ever agree with Bricker, he has done an admirable job unraveling what is a confusing piece of legislation, and the repercussions of it going forward. And in my opinion, he has done so calmly, thoroughly and rationally. \*Yes, the origin of the phrase uses “mean” in the mathematical sense, in that Indianapolis is “no average city” - but it is tragic that the alternative translation is slowly being eroded away to simply appear ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/336 "2015-04-04T03:06:34Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > There has been massive miscommunication and misinformation coming from both sides on this, both intentional and unintentional. While I very rarely ever agree with Bricker, he has done an admirable job unraveling what is a confusing piece of legislation, and the repercussions of it going forward. And in my opinion, he has done so calmly, thoroughly and rationally. Thank you. Maybe this is a signal you should agree with me more. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/337 "2015-04-04T12:14:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try three quarters of a million in one day. Wow! You sound so proud. Congratulations on your victory. Hateful religious bigot money is a zero-sum game though. One million going to Indiana Redneck Pizza is one million not going to Chick-fil-A. I remain stunned as to why religious right bigots continue to support Republicans. The best they get from them in actual products is a head-fake pseudo law that wouldn’t have done what Republicans told them it would do. And it blows up in their face when they find out that there are a ton of people of conscience in real America. So much so that other bigot legislators elsewhere have to come out and give up the game before they get smacked down. But at least you got a slumdog millionaire out of it! ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/338 "2015-04-04T12:31:11Z")
For all the ‘No, you don’t understapnd! No, it can’t/wont be used that way! It’s just misinformation!’, for the last three days CNN has been running a story of both a pizza place and a florist who are most proudly refusing to serve gays. So, it would seem, that regardless, this IS exactly how it’s going to be used. And proudly too! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/339 "2015-04-04T13:23:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > For all the ‘No, you don’t understapnd! No, it can’t/wont be used that way! It’s just misinformation!’, for the last three days CNN has been running a story of both a pizza place and a florist who are most proudly refusing to serve gays. > > So, it would seem, that regardless, this IS exactly how it’s going to be used. And proudly too! It’s an interesting effect: law passes that is materially no different from federal law and many other state laws; left-wingers cry foul and support their case with false claims; bystanders believe false claims and are outraged; bigots believe claims and are pleased; both react in accord thereto. But the bottom line remains: the Indiana law does not authorize public accommodation merchants to refuse gay customers. Any refusals made now are in the same legal ballpark as they were a year ago in Indiana. The fact that some protesters believe otherwise because a set of false claims was pushed hard is one result of the law, and another is a set of bigots ALSO believe otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378/340 "2015-04-04T13:31:07Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wow! You sound so proud. Congratulations on your victory. Now $842,000 in two days. > [@](#): > > Hateful religious bigot money is a zero-sum game though. One million going to Indiana Redneck Pizza is one million not going to Chick-fil-A. Not sure I agree. This sum is the result of almost 30,000 individual contributors, for an average gift of less than $30 each. I don’t picture that as a material bar to Chick-fil-A’s customer base. > [@](#): > > I remain stunned as to why religious right bigots continue to support Republicans. The best they get from them in actual products is a head-fake pseudo law that wouldn’t have done what Republicans told them it would do. I imagine it’s for the same reason gays voted in droves for a President who affirmed his public support for marriage remaining restricted to one man and one woman: the sense that lukewarm support is better than hostility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-did-the-indiana-gop-think-was-going-to-happen-when-they-passed-this-anti-gay-law/716378.md?page=18)