# What exactly is a straw man argument? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2001, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907 "2001-11-12T13:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/1 "2001-11-12T13:02:07Z")
I’ve been trying to work out from context what a straw man argument is, but it’s an accusation levelled at so many arguments that I can’t get a clear understanding. Could someone please take the time to explain to me the concept of a straw man argument? Fran ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/2 "2001-11-12T13:12:53Z")
I take it to mean an argument which misrepresents the opposition’s views in an attempt to defeat them more easily than would be possible by attacking them on a factual basis. Eg: A: Black people are over-represented in prison populations. B: (Knowing that A’s point may well be valid, and that he or she is concerned about the social issues from which the fact arises) How dare you suggest black people are less law-abiding? B has employed a straw man argument. A has been painted as a racist, and has been placed on the back foot as he must now defend himself on that score before he can concentrate on advancing his original viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/3 "2001-11-12T13:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*I’ve been trying to work out from context what a straw man argument is, but it’s an accusation levelled at so many arguments that I can’t get a clear understanding. Could someone please take the time to explain to me the concept of a straw man argument? > Fran \*\* Which reminds me of the following question, from a few months back: [What is a straw man argument?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=92543) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*I’ve seen this term bandied about a lot here and in other places and I’m embarressed to admit that I don’t know what it means. I figure if anyone can give me a good explanation it’s fellow dopers. Thanks in advance. > > Fran \*\* That thread contains (IMHO) quite a few good answers to the question. If you don’t think you got a decent answer, why don’t you just bumb the old thread, instead of starting a new one? Or at least give a link and point out where the answers to the earlier question were inadequate. Personally I quite like the answer given **Diceman**. Short and simple: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > **A straw man argument is when you mischaracterize an opponent or his position, and then rebutt that erronious statement. You are, in effect, inventing an opponent to defeat, ie a 'straw man opponent.'** ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/4 "2001-11-12T13:28:07Z")
That’s essentially correct. Attacking a straw man means an attack not at what your opponent has said, but rather at what you SAY your opponent has said. It redefines the extent of the debate to the advantage of the attacker. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/5 "2001-11-12T13:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > We should have conscription. People don’t want to enter the military because they find it an inconvenience. But they should realize that there are more important things than convenience. from [here](http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/straw.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/6 "2001-11-12T13:42:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*That’s essentially correct. Attacking a straw man means an attack not at what your opponent has said, but rather at what you SAY your opponent has said. It redefines the extent of the debate to the advantage of the attacker. \*\* That’s not true. You claim that a straw man argument means inventing an opponent, whereas it’s really just a device to modify the standpoint of your opponent, so that it becomes easier to attack. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/7 "2001-11-12T13:43:21Z")
Oh my goodness! I genuinely completely forgot that I asked this question before. I honestly just blanked on it. My humble apologies. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/8 "2001-11-12T15:05:14Z")
" I genuinely completely forgot that I asked this question before. I honestly just blanked on it. My humble apologies. " You sure did 🙂 That’s the first time I saw this happen in such a short period. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/9 "2001-11-12T19:21:05Z")
Here’s an example that I called this morning (paraphrasing): Poster A: I am angry because a stranger in a bathroom got close to and touched the hands of my 2 month old baby without permission. Poster B: What, so nobody should be allowed to talk to a kid without express written permission? ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/10 "2001-11-12T19:53:58Z")
**Bean’s** example comes from here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=98498](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=98498) The OP did not say that no one should talk to her child without permission. However, **Gaspode** did, and that was what **Lemur866** was responding to, not the OP. **Lemur866** did not make a strawman attack. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-a-straw-man-argument/92907/11 "2001-11-12T19:55:51Z")
Ruh-roh! And I thought it was such a good example! :o