# What exactly is an oliphaunt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [August 15, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670 "2022-08-15T00:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/1 "2022-08-15T00:22:05Z")
Every time I’ve read the LOTR trilogy, when Sam and Frodo witness oliphaunts for the first time, I assumed they were elephants and that was just their hick pronunciation. A standard elephant would have been plenty fantastic to a rube who had only heard of them in poems. I may have come to this conclusion because (I think) that other than magical, “fairy tale” type creatures (e.g., trolls, Balrogs, orcs), Middle Earth was populated with unremarkable animal specimens—horses, cows, birds, all the fauna we’d encounter in a stroll through the countryside. The movies of course depicted them as elephant-like creatures, but monstrously large (even compared to an elephant) with more than the standard allotment of tusks. All the fan wiki pages I checked map to the movies’ depictions. Did I just lack the imagination to understand these were not your garden variety elephants? Did Tolkien expand on this elsewhere? What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/2 "2022-08-15T00:27:55Z")
Well I have cousins who last name is Oliphaunt, I don’t believe this is what you are looking for, so I did some digging. Turns out to be a middle English or ye olde French term for elephant ivory. More specifically a horn made of elephant ivory. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/3 "2022-08-15T00:30:48Z")
How big are your cousins, and how many tusks do they have? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/4 "2022-08-15T00:47:58Z")
Oliphaunts were bigger than elephants but as The Professor described not as big as the movie showed. Think more like mammoth size. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/5 "2022-08-15T00:52:19Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > The movies of course depicted them as elephant-like creatures, but monstrously large (even compared to an elephant) with more than the standard allotment of tusks. ISTM that oliphaunt is to elephant as Mearas is to horses: i.e., a somewhat supernaturalized and superpowered variant of the familiar species that is nonetheless considered a real-world animal. Like the Mearas, the oliphaunts are described as a dwindling remnant of ancient might: “the like of him does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and majesty” (end of Ch IV, Book Four). ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/6 "2022-08-15T00:56:25Z")
Roland’s famous horn was called Olifant as a proper noun. > **[the legend of roland and the epic battle of roncevaux](https://compostela.co.uk/mythology/roland-and-roncevaux/)** > > There are two early medieval accounts of the epic legend of Roland and his martyrdom at the battle of Roncevaux. One Latin and the Old French ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/7 "2022-08-15T05:36:11Z")
That passage also indicates a war tower on its back. I’m now inclined to say Jackson interpreted it better than I. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/8 "2022-08-15T05:44:09Z")
Am I the only one to think first of [Pat Oliphant](https://www.google.com/search?q=oliphant+political+cartoons&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiv0bvZkcj5AhXzLDQIHfhNDooQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=oliphant+political+cartoon&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgUIABCABFAAWABg0BtoAHAAeACAAY0BiAGNAZIBAzAuMZgBAKoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=6tz5Yq-0NfPZ0PEP-Ju50Ag&bih=800&biw=1358&safe=images&hl=en)? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/9 "2022-08-15T06:24:23Z")
My first thought was the Star Wars sheriff guy. > **[Timothy Olyphant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Olyphant)** > > Timothy David Olyphant (/ˈɒlɪfənt/ OL-ih-fənt; born May 20, 1968) is an American actor. He made his acting debut in an off-Broadway theater in 1995, in The Monogamist, and won the Theatre World Award for his performance, and then originated David Sedaris' The Santaland Diaries in 1996. He then branched out to film; in the early years of his career, he was often cast in supporting villainous roles, most notably in Scream 2 (1997), Go (1999), A Man Apart (2003), Gone in 60 Seconds (2000), and Fro... ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/10 "2022-08-15T06:57:11Z")
I think of Mrs. Oliphant from the books about the Melendy children by Elizabeth Enright. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/11 "2022-08-15T08:39:20Z")
I wonder if that [tower and horn](https://darktower.fandom.com/wiki/Horn_of_Eld) subconsciously (or consciously) wound up in a [saga by Stephen King](https://darktower.fandom.com/wiki/Can_Calyx). ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/12 "2022-08-15T09:30:05Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Think more like mammoth size. Are we supposed to know how big mammoths were? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/13 "2022-08-15T09:43:58Z")
Sorry, don’t know why I assumed that was common knowlege. [![](https://a-z-animals.com/media/2021/11/shutterstock_1241263612-1024x535.jpg) ](https://a-z-animals.com/media/2021/11/shutterstock_1241263612-1024x535.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/14 "2022-08-15T09:44:26Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Think more like mammoth size. According to the LOTR wiki (which is a thing, because of course it is), the Chinese translation of the books uses 猛獁象, which literally means “mammoth”. The Japanese version, on the other hand, doesn’t attempt to translate the word at all and just uses オリファント, I.e. “oriphanto”, a phonetic transliteration of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/15 "2022-08-15T11:51:42Z")
That really was one of the best parts of the movie. Pity we never really learn more about those people. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/16 "2022-08-15T12:32:52Z")
Even in our world, with our diminished elephants, the howdah carried by a war elephant might reasonably be described as a “war tower on its back”, especially by someone unfamiliar with them. What we know about oliphaunts from the source material is that they were natural, mundane animals, that were nonetheless larger than any modern elephant, and a few other details like that they’re “grey as a mouse”. That’s it. We don’t know how much larger they were. I suspect that Jackson’s interpretation was larger than Tolkien’s, but it’s not inconsistent with the text. Personally, I picture the typical oliphaunt being comparable to King Tusk (which was actually an Indian elephant, despite African elephants being larger overall), with some specimens being a bit larger or smaller. But they could have been mammoth-sized (though not mammoths themselves, because they’re grey and I think mostly hairless). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/17 "2022-08-15T12:44:46Z")
I pictured oliphaunts as being mammoths. Large hairy elephants. I don’t know what i thought they were hairy, but i did. African elephants are more black than gray. They are really hard to photograph standing in the bright sun. 😃 I think Jackson overdid them, but i agree that his vision isn’t inconsistent with the text. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/18 "2022-08-15T12:58:02Z")
Here’s Tolkien’s answer to the OP question: > [@](#): > > Grey as a mouse, > Big as a house, > Nose like a snake, > I make the earth shake, > As I tramp through the grass; > Trees crack as I pass. > With horns in my mouth > I walk in the South, > Flapping big ears. > Beyond count of years > I stump round and round, > Never lie on the ground, > Not even to die. > Oliphaunt am I, > Biggest of all, > Huge, old, and tall. > If ever you’d meet me > You wouldn’t forget me. > If you never do, > You won’t think I’m true; > But old Oliphaunt am I, > And I never lie. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/19 "2022-08-15T12:58:52Z")
The wooly mammoth was the last surviving mammoth species but there were others that were not hairy. The steppe mammoth was larger than the wooly and less wooly. > **[Steppe mammoth | Description](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe_mammoth#Description)** > > The steppe mammoth had a short skull compared with M. meridionalis as well as a smaller jaw. The males had spiral tusks with a recurved tip that could grow as long as 4.9 metres (16 ft) in old bulls; females on the other hand had thinner and slightly curved tusks. > With several individuals reaching 4 m (13.1 ft) tall at the shoulders, it is smaller than the largest proboscideans ever to have lived (Palaeoloxodon namadicus reached 22 tonnes and shoulder heights of 5.2 metres (17.1 ft)), but was la... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670/20 "2022-08-15T13:19:10Z")
The “not to be confused with Mammoth steppe” note at the top of that article is symmetrically pleasing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-an-oliphaunt/969670.md?page=2)