# What exactly is good about Islam? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304 "2016-11-28T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/161 "2016-11-30T06:48:06Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > “You, my followers, must slaughter the unbelievers, now.” > > “You, my followers, must slaughter the unbelievers, but you can wait until later to do it.” > > Sorry, I’m not seeing a great moral divide between these positions. It’s more like practical advice. If you go slaughtering too soon after eating, you get cramps. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/162 "2016-11-30T15:19:22Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > “You, my followers, must slaughter the unbelievers, now.” > > “You, my followers, must slaughter the unbelievers, but you can wait until later to do it.” > > Sorry, I’m not seeing a great moral divide between these positions. But he doesn’t say that directly. It’s not written “And then Jesus said ‘All my followers must kill the unbelievers’” In any event, as I said, I’m not a Biblical scholar, nor am I arguing in favor of the OP. Just that, Old Testament aside, I am pretty much in the camp of “Jesus said be excellent to each other” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/163 "2016-11-30T15:20:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s more like practical advice. If you go slaughtering too soon after eating, you get cramps. I thought you were supposed to wait an hour? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/164 "2016-11-30T16:57:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A religion is generally peaceful in direct proportion to how weak it is. Buddhists in the West have a reputation for peacefulness because in the West they are weak, and therefore act nice. In places where they are strong they are violent and aggressive just like Christianity and Islam. This is interesting; do you think this could just be a manifestation of the notion ‘power corrupts’? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/165 "2016-11-30T17:22:12Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This is interesting; do you think this could just be a manifestation of the notion ‘power corrupts’? I think that’s a major part of it, but there may well be other factors, such as the strongest religion being the one that appeals to or gets used by the most naturally aggressive, power-hungry people. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/166 "2016-11-30T17:33:38Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s no better or worse than the other Abrahamic religions, or much different from religions generally. Anything you criticize Islam for, you can also find in other religions. Really? Is there anything in the New Testament gospels about going and killing members of other faiths? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/167 "2016-11-30T18:39:24Z")
Seems like most Christians try to follow the most non-crazy parts of the Bible, whereas most Muslims try to follow the whole Koran, crazy parts and all. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/168 "2016-11-30T18:43:01Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Seems like most Christians try to follow the most non-crazy parts of the Bible, whereas most Muslims try to follow the whole Koran, crazy parts and all. That’s a interesting conclusion to draw. What leads you to believe that? I ask because my personal experience with Christians and Muslims would say the opposite. But then I’m Jewish so what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/169 "2016-11-30T18:43:06Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Seems like most Christians try to follow the most non-crazy parts of the Bible, whereas most Muslims try to follow the whole Koran, crazy parts and all. Doesn’t seem like this to me at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/170 "2016-11-30T18:44:28Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Seems like most Christians try to follow the most non-crazy parts of the Bible, whereas most Muslims try to follow the whole Koran, crazy parts and all. Have you actually met any Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/171 "2016-11-30T20:19:17Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Seems like most Christians try to follow the most non-crazy parts of the Bible, whereas most Muslims try to follow the whole Koran, crazy parts and all. Let’s see… _God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. And before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself._ Nope, not crazy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/172 "2016-11-30T20:38:41Z")
Personally, I think it comes down to how intertwined the religion is with politics. If the state is officially Islamic and tries to run it’s legal system in accordance with Islam, of course we’ll see barbaric practices inflicted on the people and encouraged by the people. We’d see the same in an official Christian state that took the religion comparably seriously. For the most part in the western world, the religious influence on government has been sharply reduced and kept under control, though it constantly tries to worm its way back in. Picture all those Americans who maintain the U.S. is and always has been a Christian country and should be run along Christian lines. Does anyone sane want _them_ in charge? Heck, within living memory… my mother occasionally talks about how, in Quebec, she had legal limits imposed on her economic choices just because of her gender, due to the influence of the Catholic Church. Is anyone here going to say this was a _good_ thing? They’ve since faded to the background in Quebec, but is the influence the RCC \*still \*has over the government and laws of Ireland a good thing? Is there any religion anywhere with scripture that says all humans should be educated and free to make choices and voice their opinions? That’s pretty much the bare minimum for what we’d call a modern liberal democracy, so any state religion that is more restrictive than that cannot help but restrict its people, also. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/173 "2016-11-30T20:49:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Really? Is there anything in the New Testament gospels about going and killing members of other faiths? No to my knowledge. Then again, there’s no commandment in the Quran requiring one to “go and kill members of other faiths” either, so I fail to see your point. Indeed, aggressive violence is strictly prohibited in the Quran. Perhaps you are thinking of verses about the war with the Meccans? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/174 "2016-11-30T22:34:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Let’s see… > > _God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. And before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself._ > Nope, not crazy at all. That very well may be why there are some denominations of Christianity with a different take on that sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/175 "2016-12-01T00:42:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Indeed, aggressive violence is strictly prohibited in the Quran. Only if they capitulate and convert when their land is being overrun. If they fight back, they are the aggressors and can be killed. Quran (2:191-193) - “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against **Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc**.)” ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/176 "2016-12-01T01:05:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Personally, I think it comes down to how intertwined the religion is with politics. If the state is officially Islamic and tries to run it’s legal system in accordance with Islam, of course we’ll see barbaric practices inflicted on the people and encouraged by the people. We’d see the same in an official Christian state that took the religion comparably seriously. For the most part in the western world, the religious influence on government has been sharply reduced and kept under control, though it constantly tries to worm its way back in. Picture all those Americans who maintain the U.S. is and always has been a Christian country and should be run along Christian lines. Does anyone sane want _them_ in charge? > > Heck, within living memory… my mother occasionally talks about how, in Quebec, she had legal limits imposed on her economic choices just because of her gender, due to the influence of the Catholic Church. Is anyone here going to say this was a _good_ thing? They’ve since faded to the background in Quebec, but is the influence the RCC \*still \*has over the government and laws of Ireland a good thing? > > Is there any religion anywhere with scripture that says all humans should be educated and free to make choices and voice their opinions? That’s pretty much the bare minimum for what we’d call a modern liberal democracy, so any state religion that is more restrictive than that cannot help but restrict its people, also. The most Christian of Christian states, the Vatican, doesn’t go about executing people on religious grounds like, let’s say, Saudi Arabia; yes it use to do it long ago, but it reformed itself to be more tolerant and liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/177 "2016-12-01T01:16:22Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Only if they capitulate and convert when their land is being overrun. If they fight back, they are the aggressors and can be killed. No, it’s pretty clear about aggression being forbidden, and fighting only when attacked. > [@](#): > > Quran (2:191-193) - “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against **Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc**.)” Back to the well, eh? Again, this is about the war with the Meccans - that’s why it says “turn them out from where they have turned you out”, Mohammad and his people were persecuted and driven from Mecca. The two sides then fought for several years. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/178 "2016-12-01T01:16:55Z")
The Vatican got reduced to a city state with Swiss mercenaries. It’s far easier to be humble and pious when you’ve little choice in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/179 "2016-12-01T01:57:47Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Back to the well, eh? Again, this is about the war with the Meccans - that’s why it says “turn them out from where they have turned you out”, Mohammad and his people were persecuted and driven from Mecca. The two sides then fought for several years. There were a lot of these “Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc” people in Mecca? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304/180 "2016-12-01T02:04:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > There were a lot of these “Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc” people in Mecca? :dubious: Virtually everyone in Mecca, and all the elites, were polytheists until Muhammad had his epiphany and began converting people to Islam. Mecca was actually a pilgrimage site and place of worship for the pagan polytheists of Arabia. Did you seriously spent 9 years in Yemen and learn absolutely nothing about Islam? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-good-about-islam/773304.md?page=10)