# What, exactly, is SigmaSix? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204 "2014-05-11T18:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/41 "2014-05-15T01:35:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I remember when you posted about this before. I have been trying to recall your post through this entire thread. > If I recall the post correctly you described in detail what you did to earn a black belt and asked the speaker what he did. > Penis ensued. > You sir are my hero. \ Thanks for the kind words! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/42 "2014-05-15T01:49:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > ME: I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but I think a lot of this was copied from another company I audited, and they don’t even do the same thing as you. This is, unfortunately, very common. It did however give me possibly my single most enjoyable moment as an auditor. Running through one of the organization’s procedures I came across a clause and said, “You know, I actually thought this clause was a bit dodgy when I wrote it, and I think it’s even more dodgy in this context.” I didn’t write it up as an issue (that would have been slightly hypocritical), but I did suggest that modifying the procedure would be an “opportunity for improvement.” (I had previously consulted to a completely different organization, and somehow bits of my work had ended up in this organization’s Quality Management System.) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/43 "2014-05-15T01:49:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > \ > > Thanks for the kind words! 😃 If you can find it re-post it here. It is perfect for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![breezman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@breezman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breezman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/44 "2014-05-15T01:55:02Z")
Sigma 6 was an early name used by Pink Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/45 "2014-05-15T05:39:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > At least in electrical utilities, actual field work is so regulated, and so heavily controlled through qualification and technical certificates, that there’s little room for improvement. The problems they do have (and to be honest, they’re well run companies, from what I’ve seen) are usually on the administrative side. Interesting, thanks. I get served by PG&E, northern California’s explosive power company, so competence at the higher levels is very scarce. I could go on, but not in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/46 "2014-05-15T14:39:11Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Six Sigma Improvement Specialist: “Aha, I see that when you go up onto a utility pole, you leave the truck running and one of you always just stands there with a pair of binoculars. You could save gas by turning the truck off and improve productivity by having the guy on the ground do some real work like filling out expense reports or checking the oil on the truck.” > > Foreman: “I know what you’re saying, but according to the National Lineman’s Code, we have to have an open spotter at all times when someone is on the pole. They must direct their attention to watching the line activity so they can call for help at a moment’s notice. Also, under State law, turning a service truck off during a service call is considered Negligent Activity - if someone got hurt or something got damaged, whoever turned the truck off can be held responsible for the injury and can be convicted of a Misdemeanor offense if they knew that what they were doing was unethical.” See, this is an error a good ISO 9001 auditor would never make. Regulatory requirements are simply something you have to take into account when putting together a quality management system. Statutory and regulatory requirements are specifically called out as being things the organization must determine and account for (section 7.2.1 c.) In some businesses, regulatory requirements are just hugely, hugely important. I have a customer who handles and disposes of radioactive material (mostly from medical devices.) You’d better believe those guys abide by a few regulations. This is, incidentally, why auditors assigned to audits have to be familiar with the TYPE of business they’re visiting. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/47 "2014-05-15T15:30:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You must have mediocre auditors. Should PM me the details. 😉 A well done audit is something you should look forward to. Actually, the auditors are always very cheerful, polite, helpful, and make it very clear that I’m not “on trial” but rather, the system is being audited to make sure it’s working properly and that everyone on the team understands how to use it properly. I always feel good at the end of an audit, even when stuff pops up that is a violation. It takes a special kind of personality to be a good auditor! Still, it’s a PITA. As are many very valuable processes that seem to inhibit us doing our jobs, but in reality, help us not mess up as bad as we normally would. I’d far rather be writing or testing code than sitting on the phone answering questions about the document trail, but the document trail is crucial, and often helps me after the fact. BTW, I think I’ve only been in internal audits, ones done by (specially trained) company employees. Maybe one was an actual external certification audit. I think I’ve been in about four, since 2000. That there are more internal audits than external ones is a good thing, except that it means I have to participate in more (damned) audits! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/48 "2014-05-15T23:06:53Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The successor to ISO9000, because everyone figured out how essentially meaningless that designation is. 🙂 > > It means you and your company have learned to jump through a lot of tiny hoops, to prove to investors, partners, clients etc. that you can jump through tiny hoops really well. E-x-a-c-t-l-y. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/49 "2014-05-16T01:09:21Z")
Let me tell you a little story about my previous boss. I knew him very well; we used to hang out together on the weekends. He was _very very very_ Roman Catholic, and after a while it became apparent to me that he used the Catholic Catechism to control his family. When I was at his house, he would control his family by saying something along the lines of, “It’s not because **I** want you to do this and that. It’s because the catholic catechism obligates us to do so!” Yes, he used Catholicism to control his family. And then he discovered ISO-9000. He loved and breathed ISO-9000. And so we became ISO-9000 certified. Afterwards he was controlling our every move in the name of ISO-9000. “It’s not because **I** am telling you what to do. It’s because ISO-9000 obligates us to do so!” I left that group ASAP. I heard they quickly went downhill a few years after I left. So in a nutshell, he used Catholicism to control his family, and ISO-9000 to control his workers. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/50 "2014-05-16T03:04:43Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The successor to ISO9000, because everyone figured out how essentially meaningless that designation is. 🙂 The different appears to be that ISO9000 was about having a standard , blind to the outcome… And it calls for micromanagement , the upper management specifies how the low level do their jobs… Sigma 6 is about saying “no poor outcomes are to be ignored”… which isn’t neccessarly involving upper management meeting the coal face - but still it says that the same “par” can be used everwhere… Of course the actual rate of poor outcomes may vary from place to place and circumstance to circumstance… Its not clear that one can write a document or standard that works for every case. But there is one clear example of the philosophy working before it had this name. In the piloting of air craft. Previously they had the standard rule, the captain rules and the lesser pilots do what they are told and merely answer questions. Now, the other staff can answer questions, and give their interpretation of what that means, and/or give a concise plan of correction (or how to survive… ). it is as simple as with airplane pilots vs captain. Old way . Captain asks a question and the answer had better be concise factual and not anything like advice, unless asked for advice. Captain asks how much fuel is left ? Answer: " 1000 gallons" . There was one plane, where the chief pilot, for unknown reasons ( its unheard of for aircraft to have a secret reserve not on the gauge ) does nothing and tells everyone to keep flying even while they knew it was using up the last of the fuel. (It was already having control difficulties, and the lack of engine power combined with previous difficulties made control very hard to impossible !) Solution: the co-pilot or engineer says “5000 gallons left, we had better land in 10 minutes” “3000 gallons left, we had better land within 5 minutes” “1000 gallons left, that grass looks like a fine place to crash” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/51 "2014-05-16T06:10:11Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > The different appears to be that ISO9000 was about having a standard , blind to the outcome… And it calls for micromanagement , the upper management specifies how the low level do their jobs… Neither of these things is true though. ISO 9001 is absolutely NOT blind to the outcome, and doesn’t require micromanagement. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/52 "2014-05-16T19:11:09Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Sigma 6 is about saying “no poor outcomes are to be ignored”… which isn’t neccessarly involving upper management meeting the coal face - but still it says that the same “par” can be used everwhere… Of course the actual rate of poor outcomes may vary from place to place and circumstance to circumstance This part is not true, either. Six Sigma uses statistical modeling to identify which poor outcomes can be ignored as inherent to the process (noise) and which cannot (signal). For example, let’s say you have created the a process that yields 2 poor outcomes per million opportunities. That process would be at a perfect six sigma (6 standard deviations). The process would be deemed to be “in control” and the 2 poor outcomes would be ignored as “within the tolerances allowed by the sigma level desired” (AKA “noise”). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/53 "2014-05-20T15:26:48Z")
> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#): > > As practiced at my company it has many of the attributes of a religious cult and a pyramid sales scheme. Your mileage may vary. Seconded here. Six Sigma is (at our company) a way for a lot of middle management parasites to pretend to be “doing something” while only slowing down the actual people doing the actual work that generates money. I personally–not a “friend of a friend” mind you. I was in the room–heard a Green Belt (who I think was also a ‘champion’, but don’t quote me on that) tell our copy center guys that they needed to reorganize the colored paper on their shelves…alphabetically. Rather than the way they had it where the most frequently used paper was on the most accessible shelves. Because alphabetizing was a ‘standard practice’. She only recently left the company and it was to get another job which would focus more on her Six Sigma shit. And she did stuff like that all over the company–slowing processes down to ‘standardize’ them. This may or may not be what Six Sigma is _supposed_ to be about, but if they’re certifying people who are doing shit like this (and I’m not the only person I know who’s had similar horror stories), they need to apply some ethics and good business practices to their own organization and apply some quality control to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204/54 "2014-05-20T15:47:09Z")
Hilarious. That’s almost exactly what a 6Sigma belt holder shouldn’t do. Heck she should have been thrilled the papers were already in an optimum place and then, _maybe_, gone and checked delays linked to paper sourcing and how to eliminate that process wait state. Perhaps do a few short experiments like automating paper refreshing or double stacking the most used paper or even if it kills her suggest that changing anything would be a poor ROI and not implement a change at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-sigmasix/688204.md?page=2)