# What exactly qualifies as blackface? What forms are offensive and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848 "2019-02-02T18:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/21 "2019-02-03T04:24:52Z")
Masks are just that–accurate facial representations of specific people and as such are not inherently any sort of racial mockery or appropriation. Now wearing an Obama mask along with, oh say, a witch doctor costume, now that would be offensive but wearing the mask with a suit (or even board shorts!) to accurately reflect clothing Obama is known to wear is fine. It’s the difference between homage and mockery. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/22 "2019-02-03T06:57:35Z")
I don’t know why I’m posting this, but I’ve thought about it many times over the years, and especially the past 24 hours. In 1987 or 88, I was 14 or 15, and my high school allowed us to wear costumes on Halloween. This was a Catholic all boys school, FWIW. I decided to be an Arab oil baron. I put on a three-piece pinstripe suit, something that looked vaguely like a keffiyeh and agal (dish towels, probably), and mirrored sunglasses, which to my 15-year-old self seemed like something you’d wear in the Arabian Peninsula. And I covered my skin with brown makeup. I grew up in a somewhat rural exurb of St. Louis, where _everyone_ was white. My parents were born in the 1930s and had the attitudes of many of their generation. My mom still occasionally mentions, with a laugh, how she and my dad went to a party in the 1950s dressed as Marilyn Monroe and Sammy Davis Jr. My dad, of course, blackened his face. I grew up hearing casual racial slurs routinely. So, when I announced I wanted to be an Arab for Halloween, no one said, “Oh shit, what are you thinking?!” My mom helped me select an appropriate shade of foundation. Still, even though I grew up in a white exurb with parents whose views could be most charitably described as “dated”, my high school was fairly diverse by local standards (St. Louis, as much as I love it, is a profoundly segregated city). While there were few black students when I attended, there were a significant number of students of Middle Eastern and South Asian heritage. My two closest friends were Indian. One of them, I’m still close to. He introduced me to my wife and was in my wedding party. My wife, too, is Indian. And when I was 14 or 15, I spent a day parading around my school in brownface. I hope there are no pictures, but my mom is obsessed with compiling the world’s most comprehensive family photo album, and I’m sure she has preserved a photo of me from that day. I didn’t keep any of my yearbooks, but there may well be one in there too. It’s not that I’m ever going to run for office or anything. I just would rather the episode not be memorialized. Of course I’m mortified by it now. At the time I just thought it was a clever costume. Even then, I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable with my parents’ attitudes and bigoted language, but I still didn’t see my “Arab costume” as offensive, which of course it was. I don’t recall getting any grief for it in school, other than for actually wearing a costume, which the cool kids didn’t do. But no one called me out for wearing an _offensive_ costume. My classmates mocked me for being a dork, not a racist. One of my teachers even gave me a public attaboy for having the guts to come to school in costume when almost no one else did. I’m not trying to make any particular point about Gov. Northam. He was older, his costume was more obviously inspired by minstrelsy, and he’s a politician. He needs to resign. I was just an adolescent nobody who didn’t have a grownup to talk sense into me. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/23 "2019-02-03T12:00:58Z")
I’ve done it too. In the late 80s I dressed as a specific African American politician. No blackface - I had a mask - but I darkened my hands. This was for a work Halloween event. Everyone loved it and I came in second place. I’m sure this is offensive to many, but honestly, I don’t get it. In any case I shall not be running for political office. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/24 "2019-02-03T13:23:49Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > IAnd never, ever, EVER attempt to change your complexion to that of another human, that’s rude. You can go zombie gross or witch green or vampire pale if you like because those are not real humans, but that’s as far as the makeup acceptability goes. Says who? And why only complexion, is wearing a wig acceptable? Here’s a clip of [Father Ted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC3a9T0xsIU)showing three priests blacked-up as The Three Degrees plus other characters all wearing costumes, wigs and make-up in order to change their complexion. Are any of them acceptable? if so, which ones and how so?, if not, which ones and why not? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/25 "2019-02-03T13:38:28Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > In 7th grade my kids had to perform a monologue in the character of an illustrious Virginian. My children are persons of color: brown. My daughter acquired a red wig and portrayed Lucille Ball. My son portrayed Booker T. Washington. Obviously no blackface was ever a possibility nor even thought of. We just put him in a suit and bow tie and he nailed it. I had fun helping them prepare and was proud of them both. Ah, but your kids had a headstart on color. (At least for Booker T., not so much for Lucille.) What would they have done if _whiteface_ was expected, like Santa Claus? Would they have gone the Godfrey Cambridge route as in [Watermelon Man](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066550/)? ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/26 "2019-02-03T15:28:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Ah, but your kids had a headstart on color. (At least for Booker T., not so much for Lucille.) What would they have done if _whiteface_ was expected, like Santa Claus? Would they have gone the Godfrey Cambridge route as in [Watermelon Man](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066550/)? I’ve seen a lot of black Santas. It’s still easily identifiable, as would be lincoln. Plus Santa being completely fictional means noone can say Santas not black. Lucile probably by the red hair and 50s style dress. There are characters who would probably be difficult to identify though without changing your skin color. This is why I can only conclude it’s the history. Not changing your complexion obviously doesn’t help the authenticity of a character. I think for some it seems like any complexion change is enough, others it looks like it all depends if your making a mockery or promoting a stereotype. This is where it’s confusing to me, as it just doesn’t make sense that it’s somehow inherently offensive no matter what. Gotta be the history , gotta be that people have trained their minds that anything that vaguely goes that direction they are supposed to be offended by. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/27 "2019-02-03T15:34:11Z")
I did have a heavy black female friend that was aunt jamima for Halloween, she even got a minor amount of guff for it from one person…I’m not really sure what their line if thought was… stereotype maybe…idk. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/28 "2019-02-03T15:37:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Ah, but your kids had a headstart on color. (At least for Booker T., not so much for Lucille.) What would they have done if _whiteface_ was expected, like Santa Claus? Would they have gone the Godfrey Cambridge route as in [Watermelon Man](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066550/)? In the fourth grade, I was in a school play about Abigal Adams. A lot us “colonists” were melanistic, including the ones with speaking parts, even though in historical reality, we would have been picking cotton somewhere, not singing praises for the first lady. If we had whitened our skins, don’t you think that would have been kinda cray? My favorite historical hero is Harriet Tubman. If I was asked to dress up like Harriet Tubman (let’s say for special memorial ceremony), do you think high-yeller me would find it necessary to darken my skin? No, because that would be straight-up ridiculous. Not only would it be a total distraction from my costume, but doing so would send the message that it was Harriet’s dark skin that made her special instead of her badassness. Only someone fixated on her blackness rather than her awesomeness would even think about getting her skin color _just_ right. One of the reasons I love “Drunk History” is that they have actors of all colors reenacting historical events, regardless of what the “real” colors were. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/29 "2019-02-03T15:52:37Z")
Also indeed it seems the minstrel shows, some were originally well intended and argued their authenticity which noone could make out because some of the music became so popular it made its way back into black culture. It became the chicken or the egg question. Since it was acceptable though it was taken advantage of to promote stereotypes. This is why I had asked if it was just the whole slippery slope concept. It’s like ok obviously people can’t do it responsibly so let’s just not do it at all. Unfortunately I still think sometimes this leads to a segregation of heroes for kids. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/30 "2019-02-03T15:53:19Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > I did have a heavy black female friend that was aunt jamima for Halloween, she even got a minor amount of guff for it from one person…I’m not really sure what their line if thought was… stereotype maybe…idk. I would have given your friend some side-eye, especially if she was old enough to know [where Aunt Jemima comes from](https://blackexcellence.com/aunt-jemima-never-pancakes/). Aunt Jemima plays on the offensive [Mammy stereotype](https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/), which has fat black women eagerly existing for the sole benefit of white families’ happiness, comfort, and amusement (as opposed to [Jezebels](https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/jezebel/index.htm), who are evil homewreckers). If I saw your friend dressed up like a a mammy, I’d ask if she’s aware of the history behind that look. I’d probably side-eye her she said is aware of the history but still thought it was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/31 "2019-02-03T16:01:55Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > In the fourth grade, I was in a school play about Abigal Adams. A lot us “colonists” were melanistic, including the ones with speaking parts, even though in historical reality, we would have been picking cotton somewhere, not singing praises for the first lady. > > If we had whitened our skins, don’t you think that would have been kinda cray? > > My favorite historical hero is Harriet Tubman. If I was asked to dress up like Harriet Tubman (let’s say for special memorial ceremony), do you think high-yeller me would find it necessary to darken my skin? No, because that would be straight-up ridiculous. Not only would it be a total distraction from my costume, but doing so would send the message that it was Harriet’s dark skin that made her special instead of her badassness. Only someone fixated on her blackness rather than her awesomeness would even think about getting her skin color _just_ right. > > One of the reasons I love “Drunk History” is that they have actors of all colors reenacting historical events, regardless of what the “real” colors were. Idk about this, i get that it’s often just unnecessary but generally people either A make the costume recognizable or B strive to get every detail as authentic as possible. I don’t think those in the latter camp would just be focusing on her blackness Indeed she’d be a hard character to make recognizable as a white person. No good option there really, gotta leave it alone. White people basically aren’t gonna be able to pull off Harriet. That goes to that unfortunate segregation of heroes thing. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/32 "2019-02-03T16:05:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I would have given your friend some side-eye, especially if she was old enough to know [where Aunt Jemima comes from](https://blackexcellence.com/aunt-jemima-never-pancakes/). Aunt Jemima plays on the offensive [Mammy stereotype](https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/), which has fat black women eagerly existing for the sole benefit of white families’ happiness, comfort, and amusement (as opposed to [Jezebels](https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/jezebel/index.htm), who are evil homewreckers). If I saw your friend dressed up like a a mammy, I’d ask if she’s aware of the history behind that look. I’d probably side-eye her she said is aware of the history but still thought it was hilarious. She may actually have meant it as satire I’m not real sure honestly ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/33 "2019-02-03T16:07:59Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Unfortunately I still think sometimes this leads to a segregation of heroes for kids. How? Can you expand on this? On the playground, we kids would always pretend to be the Justice League My twin and I were naturally the Wonder Twins, even though we were both girls and even though we were black. The other kids in the group were also black, but that didn’t stop one girl from always being Wonder Woman and one boy always being Superman. For us, being a character had nothing to do with skin color. Wonder Woman isn’t a white lady. She’s a lady who spins around like Linda Carter and repels bullets with her wrist bands and flies around in an invisible plane. The Wonder Twins aren’t white kids. They are kids who fist-bump when shit is about to go down and one of them turns into an eagle while the other turns into a buck of water. And they have a Wonder Dog. If black kids can see characters for what they are rather than what they look like, then why can’t white kids? ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/34 "2019-02-03T16:12:05Z")
Rather, I’m not sure if she was doing satire of the character, or the stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/35 "2019-02-03T16:14:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How? Can you expand on this? > > On the playground, we kids would always pretend to be the Justice League My twin and I were naturally the Wonder Twins, even though we were both girls and even though we were black. The other kids in the group were also black, but that didn’t stop one girl from always being Wonder Woman and one boy always being Superman. > > For us, being a character had nothing to do with skin color. Wonder Woman isn’t a white lady. She’s a lady who spins around like Linda Carter and repels bullets with her wrist bands and flies around in an invisible plane. The Wonder Twins aren’t white kids. They are kids who fist-bump when shit is about to go down and one of them turns into an eagle while the other turns into a buck of water. And they have a Wonder Dog. If black kids can see characters for what they are rather than what they look like, then why can’t white kids? See what I said about Harriet, how would a white kid make Harriet Tubman recognizable on site ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/36 "2019-02-03T16:21:04Z")
And we can pretend like kids don’t identify by it but I definitely see a lot more black panther outfits on black kids. Even though spider Man is pretty ubiquitous. These characters have easily identifiable outfits without regard to what the person looks like. In any case your complexion is part of what you look like. No doubt about that. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/37 "2019-02-03T16:27:30Z")
If me and my friend put on suits and dark sunglasses and carry techy looking blaster guns . I guarantee to everyone else I’m K and the black guy is J Noone will think I’m J because I’m carrying the little tweeter ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/38 "2019-02-03T16:29:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Ah, but your kids had a headstart on color. (At least for Booker T., not so much for Lucille.) What would they have done if _whiteface_ was expected, like Santa Claus? Would they have gone the Godfrey Cambridge route as in [Watermelon Man](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066550/)? A, [St. Nicholas was a brown dude](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22nicholas+of+myra%22&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoyIPt-5_gAhUGh-AKHZSOC6YQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=606&dpr=1.25#imgrc=PIfmeTGcnIB24M:) (Megan Kelly notwithstanding). B, my kids are so racially mixed, more or less in between all the other colors, that AFAWC the question would never even arise in any direction. Godfrey Cambridge was one of the greatest American actors, by the way, the one responsible for making _The President’s Analyst_ as good as it is, who died way too young. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/39 "2019-02-03T16:35:30Z")
Same if we show up as Jedis, everyone’s gonna think he’s Mace and I’m Anakin regardless of our light sabre color. Now, I could put on a bald cap and he could wear a long wig and some people might get that I’m Mace and he’s obi wan but it sure won’t help authenticity. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/40 "2019-02-03T16:40:56Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > And we can pretend like kids don’t identify by it but I definitely see a lot more black panther outfits on black kids. > > Even though spider Man is pretty ubiquitous. My Black grandson had a Spider-Man costume that he wore every day until he wore it out. (Those things are not built for endurance.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848.md?page=3)