# What exactly qualifies as blackface? What forms are offensive and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848 "2019-02-02T18:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/61 "2019-02-03T17:50:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Re “dressing up” as a black person. > > By browning up your skin to play a character who just happens to be black, you’re likening their skin color to a costume. That’s not KKK racist, but it is still incredibly stupid. > > Like, if I were going to cosplay David Bowie, I would go all glam rock. **I’d get a red mullet wig** [Devil’s Advocate] (bolding mine) Why is the red wig ok? Isn’t that “likening a person’s hair color to a costume”? Is it only okay if the hair color isn’t their natural color? Why? Lucille Ball’s red hair was brought up earlier: why was it okay to wear her hair as a costume? [Devil’s Advocate] ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/62 "2019-02-03T17:51:14Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > I actually have all kinds if issues with this type of thing in my house. > My 10 year old often wants to emulate some black character or person as much as anyone else. It’s also hard to explain to him what is appropriate here. > > My 5 year old is strangely racist. > He’s yelled out in a store " get me away from all these black people" > > Thrown fits in a Mexican restaurant and refused to eat because the TV had Spanish channels on and just kept saying he hated Spanish people. > > His aunt is Colombian and he yells at her to talk right because of her accent. > > He will ask the channel be changed if there are black people on TV. > > Some if this has stopped since we bought him some books with black kids and one in particular that was some kind of first. We explained that it was the first kids book with a little black boy and asked him how he would feel if there were no books with white kids. > > He still does this cringy thing if there are black people on TV. > > At 3 he didn’t have that problem but he called a friend of mine “that chocolate guy” until he could remember his name was James. > > So I’m also trying to figure out if we should ignore this, or try to do more to purposely intervene. > I just want to be careful not to create a negative association by pushing anything. You should definitely address this. People will not judge a racist child of that age, they _will_ judge his parents. Of course, as he gets older, if that continues, then people will judge hi as well as his parents. > [@Littleman](#): > > Aren’t there only like four colors though? [Samuel L. Jackson got his own unique colored light saber.](https://www.starwars.com/databank/mace-windus-lightsaber) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/63 "2019-02-03T17:52:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wouldn’t tell him it’s rude. I would tell him it’s unnecessary and a stupid waste of time and energy (and make-up). Like it would be stupid of him to try to shave his head and walk on stilts to look like Michael Jordan. He could do these things and also paint his skin and _he’s still going to look like a five-year-old white kid_. So what the fuck is the point of doing all of that? I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up isn’t to look exactly like a character, since no one can achieve that, even with the help of a professional make-up artist. I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up is to capture the meaningful elements of a character–the things that make that character stand out. MJ’s skin color makes him like 90% of all NBA players (made-up statistic). It isn’t his costume. His costume is his jersey and his basketball and his shoes. It’s his tongue hanging out of his mouth when he dunks. But it’s not his skin. Well said. Very well said, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/64 "2019-02-03T17:54:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who gives a shit? Is this an actual problem? Is painting faces white to offend Caucasians something done through our history? Right, that’s what I’ve gotten out of this. Basically it’s not inherently bad, it’s just the history. So when were looking at people saying playing s black video game character is blackface were probably at ridiculous. Cosplay on the other hand is just too close. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/65 "2019-02-03T17:57:53Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > What’s the _objective_ difference- as opposed to the tainted-by-racist-history difference- between putting on a wig of a certain color and painting your skin a certain color? Or between opposite-sex makeup and opposite-race makeup? Most people manage to look great in a wig. Wigs are easy to pass off as “real”. I would probably look cute in a red mullet wig. In contrast, the average person looks terrible when they paint their skin to transform their racial appearance. I would not look cute in whiteface, unless I had a professional artist to help me. > [@](#): > > Again, I’m not saying “go ahead and wear blackface”. But that’s because of historical associations. In a cultural vacuum, I don’t see how it would be different than any other form of dressing up as someone else. I don’t think anyone would disagree with you. But since we aren’t and never will be in a cultural vacuum, I don’t see the point of this inquiry. > [@](#): > > (I have a somewhat embarrassing personal story that’s relevant: I was a very sheltered teenager that went to a high-school that was all-white and all-female. I was in the school play three years out of four. > Now, whenever we had a male part, we obviously had to have a girl do it. So the boy-girl would try to make herself as male-looking as possible, with her hair pulled back, and make-up stubble and such. > One year we did a play that had an explicitly black [and male] character. I would like to repeat that the other people at school were likely as sheltered as I was. So the black-white boy-girl braided her hair into something like cornrows, and had her skin dusted with brown makeup. I went around for days talking about how _amazing_ it was that the makeup department was able to change this white girl into a black boy. > My point is, _none of us_ thought the “pretend-black” _any way_ different than “pretend-male”. Without the context of knowing about minstrel shows, it was just “be something you aren’t” as usual. There was no malice intended, no “being black is a just costume” or “being male is just a costume”. It just was. > Obviously, in retrospect, it’s a very uncomfortable memory. But that’s because of outside context I’m now privy to). That doesn’t sound like blackface. I don’t think anyone but the most hypersensitive would take actual offense at what ya’ll did, provided that’s all ya’ll did. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/66 "2019-02-03T17:58:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A person’s skin color isn’t a costume. A black person isn’t a “white person covered in brown coloring”. A black person’s skin isn’t anything like a fancy dress. Or a costume. I don’t know why this is so hard to get. > > First off, who is this “we”? I don’t “deprecate” all complexion changes or certain other ways of changing appearance. I think there is a huge difference between blackface (mocking the physical appearance of black people through gross exaggeration, like using black shoe polish to represent brown skin) and brownface (simulating a specific black person with some modicum of respect). I believe that brownface is often stupid because it’s gratuitous and crazy-looking. But I don’t think it’s racist like inherently blackface is. > > I wouldn’t tell him it’s rude. I would tell him it’s unnecessary and a stupid waste of time and energy (and make-up). Like it would be stupid of him to try to shave his head and walk on stilts to look like Michael Jordan. He could do these things and also paint his skin and _he’s still going to look like a five-year-old white kid_. So what the fuck is the point of doing all of that? I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up isn’t to look exactly like a character, since no one can achieve that, even with the help of a professional make-up artist. I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up is to capture the meaningful elements of a character–the things that make that character stand out. MJ’s skin color makes him like 90% of all NBA players (made-up statistic). It isn’t his costume. His costume is his jersey and his basketball and his shoes. It’s his tongue hanging out of his mouth when he dunks. But it’s not his skin. > > Again, I wouldn’t present it as “rudeness” to a five-year-old. I would simply explain to him that skin color is a sensitive subject and that in our society, we try not to bring it up in conversation (or costumes) unless it’s really important. Most five-year-olds don’t need any more explanation than that. Makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/67 "2019-02-03T18:03:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Devil’s Advocate] > > (bolding mine) > > Why is the red wig ok? Isn’t that “likening a person’s hair color to a costume”? Is it only okay if the hair color isn’t their natural color? Why? Lucille Ball’s red hair was brought up earlier: why was it okay to wear her hair as a costume? > > [Devil’s Advocate] The hair styles of rock stars are pretty much always going to be off-the-hook crazy and therefore they are an essential element of their look. You can’t call yourself a glam rocker and not have a crazy hair style. I can put a red mullet wig and red boots on my cat and he’ll look like a cat version of David Bowie. But I don’t need to dye my cat white to make him look like David Bowie. That’s insane. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/68 "2019-02-03T18:06:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The hair styles of rock stars are pretty much always going to be off-the-hook crazy and therefore they are an essential element of their look. You can’t call yourself a glam rocker and not have a crazy hair style. > > I can put a red mullet wig and red boots on my cat and he’ll look like a cat version of David Bowie. But I don’t need to dye my cat white to make him look like David Bowie. That’s insane. In my best Mathew McConaughey voice; It’d be a whole lot cooler if you did. Lol Not really just what I usually say to crazy suggestions like dying your cat white ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/69 "2019-02-03T18:19:26Z")
So, cosplay is best left alone because of the history. It’s mostly unnecessary anyhow. While there are some borderline examples that could be done tastefully. This digital blackface stuff is mostly wacko unless you’re purposely stereotyping. Does that roughly sum up the situation? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/70 "2019-02-03T18:19:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A person’s skin color isn’t a costume. A black person isn’t a “white person covered in brown coloring”. A black person’s skin isn’t anything like a fancy dress. Or a costume. I don’t know why this is so hard to get. It’s not “hard to get”. But I think your implication that there’s some obvious _theoretical_ (ahistorical) reason for why it’s different from other aspects of appearance it’s weak. The compelling reason that there is great sensitivity about changing aspects of appearance that correlate to race (most notably skin color) is historical & social context - because of our terrible history of racism. > [@monstro](#): > > …I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up isn’t to look exactly like a character, since no one can achieve that, even with the help of a professional make-up artist. I would explain to him the purpose of dressing up is to capture the **meaningful elements of a character** –the things that make that character stand out. MJ’s skin color makes him like 90% of all NBA players (made-up statistic)… [my bold] Yes, that’s extremely well put. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/71 "2019-02-03T18:20:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The hair styles of rock stars are pretty much always going to be off-the-hook crazy and therefore they are an essential element of their look. You can’t call yourself a glam rocker and not have a crazy hair style. > > I can put a red mullet wig and red boots on my cat and he’ll look like a cat version of David Bowie. But I don’t need to dye my cat white to make him look like David Bowie. That’s insane. Thank you for the response. You’re dodging my actual question tho. In your opinion, if a white guy wants to dress up as Dr. J, can they wear an afro wig? I guess the dichotomy I’m seeing is that one innate trait that a person has no control over (their skin color) is verboten but another equally innate trait is not. Is it wrong to wear contacts to mimic someone else’s natural eye color? ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/72 "2019-02-03T18:37:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The hair styles of rock stars are pretty much always going to be off-the-hook crazy and therefore they are an essential element of their look. You can’t call yourself a glam rocker and not have a crazy hair style. > > I can put a red mullet wig and red boots on my cat and he’ll look like a cat version of David Bowie. But I don’t need to dye my cat white to make him look like David Bowie. That’s insane. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > You should definitely address this. People will not judge a racist child of that age, they _will_ judge his parents. > > Of course, as he gets older, if that continues, then people will judge hi as well as his parents. > > [Samuel L. Jackson got his own unique colored light saber.](https://www.starwars.com/databank/mace-windus-lightsaber) He’s also highly offended by green or white beauty masks, Hair color changes, wigs, blue makeup, red make-up. Basically anything that makes a person look unusual to him. So I’m hoping that’s the root of it, and it’s a phase but explaining to him specifically that it’s not ok to act like that if people can’t change it. Which has resulted in him pleading with Mom to “take that off” if she dyes her hair. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/73 "2019-02-03T18:42:22Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > He’s also highly offended by green or white beauty masks, Hair color changes, wigs, blue makeup, red make-up. Basically anything that makes a person look unusual to him. Are you sure you have a child rather than a cat? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/74 "2019-02-03T18:55:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you for the response. You’re dodging my actual question tho. In your opinion, if a white guy wants to dress up as Dr. J, can they wear an afro wig? > > I guess the dichotomy I’m seeing is that one innate trait that a person has no control over (their skin color) is verboten but another equally innate trait is not. Hairstyles are not an innate trait. They are _styles_. Dr. J’s afro was a deliberate, intentional look the same way that David Bowie’s red mullet was. So yes, those things are essential elements to their costume. Skin color is not, since they didn’t choose their skin color and their skin color doesn’t distinguish them from anyone else. > [@](#): > > Is it wrong to wear contacts to mimic someone else’s natural eye color? Since I haven’t said there’s anything “wrong” with doing anything, your question is strange to me. But no, there’s nothing “wrong” with mimicking someone’s natural eye color, especially if we’re talking about an unusual eye color. But for 99.9% of the real historical or contemporary figures that people might want to cosplay, getting the eye color exactly right is completely unnecessary since eye color isn’t that noticeable a feature. If we’re talking about a costume contest with a sizeable grand prize, I might be tempted to put in some blue eye contacts if I’m going as Anderson Cooper–just to show the judges how committed I am. But otherwise, no. If I can’t convince people I’m “Anderson Cooper enough” with my mannerisms and a stylish white wig, then wearing contacts isn’t going to help. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/75 "2019-02-03T19:05:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A black person isn’t a “white person covered in brown coloring”. Interestingly, I can actually do a damn good job if replicating colors. What I’ve actually found is that its close to the opposite. I was commissioned to do a portrat of the guy that started the national black theater foundation. Thankfully this was basically a photo realistic painting. Otherwise I would probably have turned it down simply because I’m aware of cross race identification bias. My biggest concern was getting his coloring correct as I knew this would be a sensitive matter, the whole painting turned out on the warm side colorwise , which was fine and I thought it was appropriate since it was post mortem. Later on I used some of the mixes for his skin tone to paint other people. What I found was that I could easily lighten those mixes and make great realistic flesh tones for just about every color of person. With some of the busts and statuettes I’ve done for major theme parks I’m confident if I wanted to I could easily airbrush anyone to accurately have the skin tone of anyone else. Though I guess I shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/76 "2019-02-03T19:06:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A white person who shows up to a generic costume party dressed up as Harriet Tubman probably would be confusing. But a white person dressed up as Harriet Tubman at a costume party celebrating American historical figures probably would be instantly recognizable. I think that you are overestimating familiarity with Harriet Tubman. If I were at an American History themed costume party and Harriet Tubman herself time-traveled to the party, I would have no idea who she was unless she leaned a pickaxe over her shoulder and wore a hat like [Floyd Smoot](http://beverlyhillbillies.wikia.com/wiki/Floyd_Smoot). ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/77 "2019-02-03T19:11:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > eye color isn’t that noticeable a feature. Unless you’re a white person. Look up cross race identification bias. People of any one race tend to identify individuals by the features which vary the most within their own race. So basically when describing someone a black person is unlikely to use eye color. A white person is very likely to use eye color. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/78 "2019-02-03T19:13:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Are you sure you have a child rather than a cat? Lol, do cats do that? I have four , three boys and a step daughter. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/79 "2019-02-03T19:16:29Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I think that you are overestimating familiarity with Harriet Tubman. If I were at an American History themed costume party and Harriet Tubman herself time-traveled to the party, I would have no idea who she was unless she leaned a pickaxe over her shoulder and wore a hat like [Floyd Smoot](http://beverlyhillbillies.wikia.com/wiki/Floyd_Smoot). Someone who dresses up like Harriet Tubman isn’t trying to appeal to people like you. They are trying to appeal to other fangirls and fanboys of Harriet Tubman–folks who would be able to recognize her costume from a million miles away. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848/80 "2019-02-03T19:18:30Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Unless you’re a white person. > Look up cross race identification bias. > > People of any one race tend to identify individuals by the features which vary the most within their own race. > > So basically when describing someone a black person is unlikely to use eye color. > > A white person is very likely to use eye color. I don’t know Abigal Adam’s eye color. But I do have an idea of how she styled her hair and dressed. Without looking at her portrait, do you know her eye color? Do you think that you’d have to get this little detail exactly right in order to have a convince Abigal Adams costume? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-qualifies-as-blackface-what-forms-are-offensive-and-why/828848.md?page=5)