# What expectations does Western Society have on people over the age of 18 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202 "2017-03-14T23:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/41 "2017-03-15T10:10:33Z")
I’ll second **Lasciel** about the debt one. A year or two ago, I failed a routine background check, because I had no credit history, in turn because I had no debt. Apparently the default assumption is that lack of debt is evidence for lack of a person’s existence. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/42 "2017-03-15T11:18:06Z")
I think we’re confusing “having a driver’s licence” and “owning a car” - like I’ve said, lots of people have driver’s licences but no car. Some of them are teenagers/young adults, some of them live in the centre of the city and don’t need their own car, others can’t afford a car at that point - there’s plenty of cromulent reasons to be licenced to drive but not own a vehicle. And I think when you’ve got 65%+ of people doing or having a thing (owning a mobile phone, having an internet connection, having a bank account etc) then it’s a reasonable assumption most adults you’re likely to encounter will have or do that thing. It’s like having a Facebook page - I don’t have one but most people my age do, so it’s a totally reasonable assumption on the part of people I’ve just met that I have a Facebook account. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/43 "2017-03-15T11:29:30Z")
I’m 63 and live in England. 1. It is assumed that everyone has a cell phone of some type. \*\* I don’t have a cell phone.\*\* 2. It is assumed that most people have a driver’s license and an operational vehicle and can drive reasonably well. **I can’t drive (so don’t have a car 😉 )** 1. Everyone has some sort of a facebook/Twitter/Instagram/snapchat account. **None of the above.** ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/44 "2017-03-15T13:32:04Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > some bold assumptions there! > > 1. It is assumed that everyone has a cell phone of some type. > just in the us smartphone ownership is 77% > [Demographics of Mobile Device Ownership and Adoption in the United States | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/) > > 2. It is assumed that everyone has access to the internet and is available on short notice if they are online. > in the us, home internet connectivity is74% > [https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/2013computeruse.pdf](https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/2013computeruse.pdf) > > 3. It is assumed that most people have a driver’s license and an operational vehicle and can drive reasonably well. > just in us DL percentage is 85% > [Office of Highway Policy Information - Policy | Federal Highway Administration](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2010/dl20.cfm) > > 4. Everyone has a credit/debit account of some sort. > just in us 66% of individuals and 78% of households have creditcards > [Number of U.S. Facebook users by age 2018 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/398136/us-facebook-user-age-groups/) > > 5. Everyone knows basic English (even in non English speaking countries) > worldwide english knowledge is 25% (just under 50% in the countries you name > [What Percentage of the World Speaks English?](https://www.reference.com/world-view/percentage-world-speaks-english-859e211be5634567#) > > 6. Everyone has some sort of a facebook/Twitter/Instagram/snapchat account. > in just us facebook percent is well under 50% > [Number of U.S. Facebook users by age 2018 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/398136/us-facebook-user-age-groups/) > > Anymore assumptions? yeah thats my question too! > > mc Thanks for those Stats Based on that, it is reasonable to assume that most with emphasis on MOST, adults have a smart phone, a Driver’s license, internet, and a credit/debit card Others are not as common as I had thought Thanks ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/45 "2017-03-15T13:47:39Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > Interesting:) > > Australia being a country similar in size to USA (lower 48 states) or Canada, outside of the major centers (Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth) I would think having a license and vehicle would be essential. > > Although, I certainly agree that the typical age of getting a license has increased from 18 to say 21 on the average. When I was in Darwin lat year, I asked around about finding someone I could hire who could drive me around, and people said most of the people they knew did not have a car. Darwin has good public transport, and there is no place to go outside Darwin. It is a day’s drive to the next traffic light on the only road out of Darwin, and a two-day drive to a town with more than one gas station. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/46 "2017-03-15T14:05:37Z")
The OP is probably essentially right, from the viewpoint of the mainstream. The items described are characteristic of the lives of people likely to be acquaintances of those of us on a message board. But most of you circulate among the part of western culture that has jobs where you work, or live in your neighborhood, or shop at your supermarket, or go to your school. There are a lot of exceptions to the norms outlined in the OP, but most of us have no occasion in our daily lives to come into contact with any of them, and if we occasionally do, they are just regarded as anecdotal outliers. So the OP is right, that these are the expectations of western society, but wrong if he assumes that these expectations are widely fulfilled. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/47 "2017-03-15T15:34:03Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > 1. It is assumed that most people have a driver’s license and an operational vehicle and can drive reasonably well. As mentioned several times, people growing up in big cities may not get a driver’s license until they need it, and a larger percentage won’t own a car. NYC is the classic examples. 56% of households in NYC don’t have cars - [Transportation in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_most_households_without_a_car) Driver’s licenses percentages are going down fairly dramatically in recent years - [The Decline of the Driver's License - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/the-decline-of-the-drivers-license/425169/) > [@](#): > > It’s especially pronounced for the teens—in 2014, just 24.5 percent of 16-year-olds had a license, a 47-percent decrease from 1983, when 46.2 percent did. And at the tail end of the teen years, 69 percent of 19-year-olds had licenses in 2014, compared to 87.3 percent in 1983, a 21-percent decrease. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/48 "2017-03-15T17:24:32Z")
^^^ is not surprising about the 16 year olds. There are only four states (ID MT ND SD) where you can get an unrestricted license on turning 16, and 15 states where you need to be 18. When I started driving, it was 16 in virtually every state, and younger in a few. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/49 "2017-03-15T17:32:30Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > ^^^ is not surprising about the 16 year olds. Have the laws changed since 1983 when 47% more 16 year olds had licenses? The important part of that report is that the percentage of people with licenses are dropping, not matter what the age. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/50 "2017-03-15T18:13:18Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Here are the figures I found for France (I just picked the first figure I found, I don’t vouch for their accuracy). > > 1. Everyone knows basic English (even in non English speaking countries) > 40% , so wrong assumption. Most of the assumptions except maybe the driver’s license/car one are less valid for older people most places than younger, ie would make a difference whether 18-35 or everybody over 18. I guess this would also be true of English ability among French. Although that one also varies a lot IME among ‘Western’ countries including any of those which have been roped into that designation in the thread. IME young people in small Northern European countries especially speaking Germanic native tongues are very likely to speak reasonable English (Netherlands, Scandinavia). It’s less likely in larger countries though again more likely in Germany than France IME. In the Far East it’s a different situation. English learning is viewed as a pretty key skill, perhaps even more in Korea than Japan, again a smaller country (South Korea has the second highest number of students in the US of any country, behind China). However for people who don’t go to professions where they also have to really use English, they forget. And even during the learning process, French and English are sort of the same language compared to Japanese and Korean (I struggle in all three as a native English speaker but it’s amazing how much more mileage I get from dim recollection of HS French and a little brush up compared to the return on effort in the other two). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/51 "2017-03-15T18:40:13Z")
I don’t care what they have or what they know. Just stay off my lawn. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/52 "2017-03-16T01:23:17Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think we’re confusing “having a driver’s licence” and “owning a car” - like I’ve said, lots of people have driver’s licences but no car. We’re not confusing them - the OP explicitly specifies that _both_ are expected of anyone over 18. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/53 "2017-03-16T02:14:57Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > We’re not confusing them - the OP explicitly specifies that _both_ are expected of anyone over 18. To be honest, I was surprised at the number of people with DL’s without a vehicle ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202/54 "2017-03-16T03:23:29Z")
Cars are definitely not expected in DC, but I think DLs are. Lots of car2go and Zipcar use here. I’ve encountered exactly one adult recently who I know doesn’t have a DL and one who I know doesn’t have cell phone. Obviously I’m not quizzing passers-by. And my regular acquaintances are young. The cell phone penetrance stats include retired boomers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-expectations-does-western-society-have-on-people-over-the-age-of-18/782202.md?page=2)