# What fact is most obvious to you that you hear frequently denied? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009 "2010-01-30T07:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/141 "2010-02-02T05:08:27Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > And it’s corollary: folks who disagree with generally held, data-driven scientific consensus are not anywhere near 50% likely to be right, historically. The vast, vast majority of them are nutcases. The existence of a few counter-examples (yes, yes, science was wrong to discount continental drift) does not change that fact, and in fact usually illustrate that the system is self-correcting (continental drift _is_ the generally held, data-driven consensus now, _because_ it could explain things that steady-state could not, and was not killed by a vast conspiracy of scientists). This is an extension of the principle “just because we can’t say that something is true with perfect certainty does not mean that we must say that we have no clue as to how likely that something is to be true”. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/142 "2010-02-02T05:35:15Z")
That Islam is a religion of peace, not militant jihad. That its converts are never given the choice of death or conversion. That a vast majority of black voters (70%) were critical in the passing of Prop 8 - the same percentage as religion church-goers. Nobody seems to see the irony either. [Cite 1](http://www.tressugar.com/2473820) [Cite 2](http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-01-07/bay-area/17199504_1_same-sex-marriage-ban-black-voters-lesbian-task-force) > [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Most of the “rules of grammar” are actually rules of style - for instance, there is actually nothing inherently wrong with starting a sentence with “and” or ending one with a preposition. > [@Ludovic](#): > > That cutting taxes cuts revenue, and raising taxes raises revenue. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/143 "2010-02-02T05:40:28Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > That a vast majority of black voters (70%) were critical in the passing of Prop 8 - the same percentage as religion church-goers. Nobody seems to see the irony either. [Cite 1](http://www.tressugar.com/2473820) [Cite 2](http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-01-07/bay-area/17199504_1_same-sex-marriage-ban-black-voters-lesbian-task-force) I am not debating or calling into question your claim. However, I want to let you know that your second offered cite appears to explicitly take issue with the claim you are using it to support, calling the figure of 70% “an exaggeration” and giving 58% as a purportedly more accurate figure instead. Accordingly, you may wish to use a different link to accompany your point (which, again, I am taking no sides regarding). ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/144 "2010-02-02T06:36:53Z")
A vast majority of black voters (70%) were critical in the passing of Prop 8 - the same percentage as religion church-goers. Nobody seems to see the irony either. "Exit polls found that 70 percent of black voters backed Prop. 8 on Nov. 4, even as they overwhelmingly supported Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, who opposed the same-sex marriage ban. But an analysis of precinct-level voting data on Prop. 8 from Alameda, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego and San Francisco counties, which are home to nearly two-thirds of California’s black voters, suggested that African American support for Prop. 8 was more likely about 58 percent." So 2/3rds of counties found 58%; they’re not disputing that overall it’s still 70%. I actually posted the _one_ link calling into question the 70%, since it is the most recent. There are several other cites from November, including this [one](http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=6284348&page=1). ETA: I posted the opposite of the OP’s question to the first statement, so it is revised: Islam is not a religion of peace, it is a religion that both encourages and was founded in violence. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/145 "2010-02-02T10:51:56Z")
There is nothing all that special or profound or good about love; it’s just another emotion. Hatred as well is morally neutral; it is not intrinsically evil. There is nothing desirable about having a purpose imposed upon you by someone else. So the people who complain about how if there’s no God then our life has no purpose, are complaining about something _good_. Torture is, at best, grossly inferior to other forms of interrogation. Not only is Islam not a “religion of peace”; this in no way makes it stand out among religions. Even if there was a God, he would not have the right to dictate morality, nor would we be obligated to him in any way. Prejudices CAN be eliminated; they do not endlessly accumulate. Look what happened at least in America to the long standing, deep prejudice against the left handed, thousands of years old. In a few generations, it went from widespread and taken dead seriously, to a weird archaic belief you sometimes have to remind people actually existed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/146 "2010-02-02T14:13:32Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > That Islam is a religion of peace, not militant jihad. That its converts are never given the choice of death or conversion. And when, pray tell, was the last time you heard of this happening? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/147 "2010-02-02T14:33:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > And when, pray tell, was the last time you heard of this happening? [Moderator Warning]Infraction for ignoring OP _and_ several Moderator notes not to debate in this thread.[/Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/148 "2010-02-02T14:43:21Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > And finally the whole anti-vax BS, particularly in regards to autism. I STILL get forwards about “BIG PHARMA KILLING OUR KIDS! MERCURY THIS THIMEROSAL THAT! POISON DIE DIEEEEE!” Why don’t these people care that there are no actual studies supporting their position, citing only cases where there were pre-existing conditions and legal crap as if that is sufficient evidence to deny children necessary preventative care? This. Or that there are no consequences to non-vaccination. If vaccines are so terrible that they must be banned because your precious little honeywunny had a (GASP!) fever and after his MMR what on earth makes you think he’d be okay if he were exposed to an actual fucking case of the measles? Because make no mistake that’s what will happen when you and your dimwitted cohort are done preaching against basic public health measures. Measles will happen. Mumps will happen. Rubella will happen. Diphtheria, polio, whooping cough, Hep B, tetanus – all of this WILL be back if you don’t fucking vaccinate your children. The rest of us do not feel like picking up the physical and emotional tab because you are too stupid to understand basic scientific principles. STFU and go away. And take your goddamned contagious diseases with you. ---
**Author:** ![boozilu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@boozilu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boozilu)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/149 "2010-02-02T18:53:19Z")
Just because you read it on the internet/in the paper/etc doesn’t make it true. Overweight toddlers are that way because their parents feed them too much. Just because you are presented with two sides of an issue, that doesn’t mean both sides warrant equal consideration. I just means the TV program wants a lively debate. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/150 "2010-02-02T20:17:24Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Not knowing the answer to a question does not make all possible answers equally likely. > > And it’s corollary: folks who disagree with generally held, data-driven scientific consensus are not anywhere near 50% likely to be right, historically. The vast, vast majority of them are nutcases. The existence of a few counter-examples (yes, yes, science was wrong to discount continental drift) does not change that fact, and in fact usually illustrate that the system is self-correcting (continental drift _is_ the generally held, data-driven consensus now, _because_ it could explain things that steady-state could not, and was not killed by a vast conspiracy of scientists). You reminded me of another one - when you have two sides arguing an issue, and one side is 20,000 scientists who are experts in the field, and the other side is a guy who read some stuff on the internet, no, you don’t give both opinions equal weight (“news” shows, I’m looking at you). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/151 "2010-02-02T20:46:03Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I’d like to know: what belief (or beliefs) do you consider really obvious, yet hear denied fairly often? Well, some of the atheists on this board believe that Christians and Jews and currently engaged in practices such as stoning women to death for wearing certain clothes. There’s a thread in GD based on this premise right now. It seems _fairly_ obvious to me that this is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/152 "2010-02-02T21:00:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Well, some of the atheists on this board believe that Christians and Jews and currently engaged in practices such as stoning women to death for wearing certain clothes. There’s a thread in GD based on this premise right now. It seems _fairly_ obvious to me that this is not true. [Moderator Warning]Infraction. If you think you were being clever in trying this workaround the instructions not to debate in this thread, you’re wrong.[/Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/153 "2010-02-02T21:36:52Z")
Some things I often hear quoted as fact but which are demonstrably wrong include: 1. You can’t prove a negative (Oh yes you [can](http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articles/proveanegative.html)) 2. Republicans improve the deficit, Democrats make it worse. (See [here](http://zfacts.com/p/318.html), to see otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/154 "2010-02-03T00:13:14Z")
Let’s get a little explosive. [ol] [li]Gun control is a good thing.[/li][li]The right to bear arms might have been a good idea once, back when the US was being founded. In the modern world, it is insane and should be repealed without delay.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/155 "2010-02-03T00:31:19Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > Let’s get a little explosive. > > [ol] > [li]Gun control is a good thing.[/li][li]The right to bear arms might have been a good idea once, back when the US was being founded. In the modern world, it is insane and should be repealed without delay.[/li][/ol] Those aren’t facts, which are either true or false. They are opinions, which are neither true nor false. The OP asked about facts which some people deny. For example, it is a fact that Columbus thought the world was round. But many people still think he thought it was flat. Many, maybe most, of the posting so far have dealt with opinions. Almost any time, for example, you are talking about gay rights or a woman’s right to choose (unless you are talking about legal rights), you are talking about opinions. I wish we could stick to the original questions and list facts that are widely denied.l ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/156 "2010-02-03T00:47:58Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > Those aren’t facts, which are either true or false. They are opinions, which are neither true nor false. Thank you for your opinion. The above are facts that are obvious to me. I’m sorry that they are not obvious to you. ---
**Author:** ![There\_is\_no\_God](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@There\_is\_no\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/There_is_no_God)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/157 "2010-02-03T01:50:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > And when, pray tell, was the last time you heard of this happening? > > [Moderator Warning]Infraction for ignoring OP _and_ several Moderator notes not to debate in this thread.[/Moderator Warning] Will I get a warning if I mention the perfect alignment of non-mod-poster name and action? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009/158 "2010-02-03T03:03:16Z")
[Moderator Note]Congratulations to all those who couldn’t follow the simple directions put down in the OP-this thread has been hijacked and nitpicked to the point of uselessness. Apologies to **The Bith Shufle** for having to close this.[/Moderator Note] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fact-is-most-obvious-to-you-that-you-hear-frequently-denied/527009.md?page=7)