# What factors contributed to Britain building the world's strongest navy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637 "2018-10-28T16:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/61 "2018-11-02T19:39:11Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Churchill also pushed for the new dreadnoughts to run on oil, rather than coal - a very controversial decision at the time, but one which gave the British ships a significant advantage in WWI. > > From a 2008 [article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3671962/John-McCain-Extraordinary-foresight-made-Winston-Churchill-great.html) by Senator John McCain: But he had a problem with [Gallipoli.](https://www.history.com/news/winston-churchills-world-war-disaster) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/62 "2018-11-03T00:14:31Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > My wife is currently reading a book called ‘[Cod](https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/mark-kurlansky/cod-a-biography-of-the-fish-that-changed-the-world/GOR001223391?keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg-b59Ke13gIViLTtCh1blgJXEAQYASABEgL6HvD_BwE)’, which is all about the influence that particular fish has had on certain economies. That is, in fact, one of the books from which I got this knowledge. Another is “Six Frigates” which goes into how the US navy was so good because of the immense pool of top rate mariners created in the US by the fishing industry. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/63 "2018-11-03T14:42:45Z")
The British merchant navy and the fishing trawler fleet also provide ships and experienced mariners during times of war. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/64 "2018-11-03T15:06:44Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Normally in the Royal Navy a boy would start as a midshipman at the age of about 12 or 14. In the Napoleanic era it was more like ten and there was at least one case of a seven year-old middy. That was highly unusual, if not unique, and due to connections. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/65 "2018-11-03T15:39:58Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > In the Napoleanic era it was more like ten and there was at least one case of a seven year-old middy. That was highly unusual, if not unique, and due to connections. A Midshipman at seven, or a ship’s boy? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/66 "2018-11-03T17:33:01Z")
A midshipman. Dunno how that worked for the first several years nor how he turned out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/67 "2018-11-03T18:15:59Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > A midshipman. Dunno how that worked for the first several years nor how he turned out. Perhaps an officer’s child. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/68 "2018-11-03T19:04:46Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > My wife is currently reading a book called ‘[Cod](https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/mark-kurlansky/cod-a-biography-of-the-fish-that-changed-the-world/GOR001223391?keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg-b59Ke13gIViLTtCh1blgJXEAQYASABEgL6HvD_BwE)’, which is all about the influence that particular fish has had on certain economies. Thanks SanVito. It looks interesting. I’ll order it. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/69 "2018-11-05T14:26:59Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Churchill also pushed for the new dreadnoughts to run on oil, rather than coal - a very controversial decision at the time, but one which gave the British ships a significant advantage in WWI. > [@filmstar-en](#): > > That innovation led to control over oil producing countries becoming a strategic objective of nations with big navies. A great example of how holding on to number one status not only requires political will but also requires you to make other strategic considerations subordinate to this overarching goal. > [@filmstar-en](#): > > The British merchant navy and the fishing trawler fleet also provide ships and experienced mariners during times of war. Yes, although this natural resource had to be (or at least, was) harvested through the mechanism of the press gang as well as patriotic volunteering - again, keeping the Royal Navy at peak effectiveness was too important to be left to chance. (And, speaking of sub-ordinate strategic considerations, the War of 1812 was at least in part due to Britain’s aggressive press-ganging policy vis-a-vis “Britons” on American ships.) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/70 "2018-11-05T15:41:48Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > Woe betide an admiral who did not show courage in the face of the enemy. > > [The Execution of Admiral Byng | History Today](https://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/execution-admiral-byng) > > :eek: Of course, the Admiralty would have a good many classical scholars who had read Voltaire: \*“it is necessary, now and then, to put one admiral to death in order to inspire the others to fight.” \* ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/71 "2018-11-05T16:06:56Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Of course, the Admiralty would have a good many classical scholars who had read Voltaire: \*“it is necessary, now and then, to put one admiral to death in order to inspire the others to fight.” > \* I thought it was, “The British occasionally kill an Admiral to encourage the others.” ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/72 "2018-11-05T16:09:54Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > In the Napoleanic era it was more like ten and there was at least one case of a seven year-old middy. That was highly unusual, if not unique, and due to connections. At that time it was not unusual to sign the infant son of a fellow captain on as a Midshipman as a favour. The child would not generally go to sea, but would be able to draw a salary and take a share of prize money. > [@](#): > > According to regulations young gentlemen were not to enter the service before the age of thirteen or, if a naval officer’s son, not before the age of eleven. The rules, however, were often ignored. Commander James Anthony Gardner, for example, began his naval career aboard HMS Conqueror at the tender age of five. Admiral Sir William Henry Dillon was approximately ten, when he entered the Saturn in 1790, and John William Bannister, who became a magistrate of Sierra Leone, was “brought up to the navy,” beginning his career at age seven, and becoming a midshipman by age nine. > > [https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10036/109573/CavellS.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y](https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10036/109573/CavellS.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/73 "2018-11-05T16:18:39Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > That innovation led to control over oil producing countries becoming a strategic objective of nations with big navies. In hindsight the importance of petroleum not just to ships but also to motor vehicles and airplanes meant this was the right choice. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/74 "2018-11-05T16:20:46Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Even before computers, everyone hated Byng. In one of his Honor Harrington novels, James Weber recycled the name for a stupidly arrogant Solarian League admiral. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/75 "2018-11-05T17:39:20Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Of course, the Admiralty would have a good many classical scholars who had read Voltaire: \*“it is necessary, now and then, to put one admiral to death in order to inspire the others to fight.” > \* Voltaire wrote that line _in response_ to Admiral Byng’s execution. Byng was a friend of Voltaire. So those scholars would not have been able to read Voltaire’s line beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/76 "2018-11-05T17:50:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They had all that lumber sitting in the back yard. It was either a navy or build a big deck off Scotland. No, in fact GB had to import lumber. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/77 "2018-11-05T18:17:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, in fact GB had to import lumber. There wasn’t enough heavy timber in all of Britain to supply the fleets. As C.S. Forester related in his novel _Horatio and the Hotspur_, the mainmast for a first-rate was a hundred feet long and three feet thick. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/78 "2018-11-05T19:06:24Z")
Timber was to the British Navy in the 18th century what coal and later oil become on the 19th and 20th centuries. Wood for building ships was imported from the Baltic, Norway and even the colonies in the Americas (despite a little local difficulty). The size and availability of trees suitable for the largest warships was of strategic importance. New England supplied the best quality masts. > **[British timber trade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_timber_trade)** > > The British timber trade was importation of timber from the Baltic, and later North America, by the British. During the Middle Ages and Stuart period, Great Britain had large domestic supplies of timber, especially valuable were the famous British oaks. This timber formed the backbone of many industries such as shipbuilding but not iron smelting which used charcoal derived from the wood of various trees. > From before the industrial revolution period the price of timber in England had been in... [http://rogerknight.org/pdf/New%20England%20Forests%20and%20British%20Seapower.pdf](http://rogerknight.org/pdf/New%20England%20Forests%20and%20British%20Seapower.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/79 "2018-11-06T04:47:35Z")
[Here’s an extensively bookmarked scan](http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/age-of-sail/the-elements-and-practice-of-rigging-and-seamanship/)of a book called _The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship_, 1794, by David Steel. An incredible resource showing just went into the making masts, sails, rigging and other parts of warships. One way for shipmakers to get around not having enough large trees for a mast was to create what was called a “made-mast” (a mast created out of a single piece of wood was called a pole-mast). A large made-mast would be made out of four smaller trees squared off and fitted together with tongue and groove surfaces (“Coak and Plane” in their terms) with smaller strips of wood used to fill it out into a round cross-section. The mast would be wrapped tight with rope to further hold it together. And by tight I mean they used a special frame that allowed them to crank the rope tighter than mere human strength would allow after each turn round the mast. The rope would be secured with a nail and a leather washer at each turn. Smaller pieces of ships such as yard arms might be made out of two pieces of wood with raised checkerboard surfaces on the mating faces to create a more solid join. [Here’s a diagram](http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/mastplate1.jpg)showing the cross section of such a mast. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637/80 "2018-11-16T19:23:46Z")
Dammit, I’m bumping this thread just to get you all to click that link:[David Steele](http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/age-of-sail/the-elements-and-practice-of-rigging-and-seamanship/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-factors-contributed-to-britain-building-the-worlds-strongest-navy/823637.md?page=5)