# What famous figures were you most surprised to discover were huge assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109 "2009-04-06T05:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/141 "2009-04-07T23:00:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I mentioned recently that Garrison Keillor has a terrible reputation among writers and others who’ve worked for and with him. They describe him as an egomaniac who has never done anything wrong, who if material works it’s all due to him regardless of whether or not he wrote it and if it flops it’s completely due to the writer and or other performers, and that he underpays writers and takes complete intellectual ownership of anything they create for him (i.e. he can use it in his books or elsewhere without credit). Keillor is a family friend of a friend of mine - as in her parents hung out with him 40 years ago and were still friends 20 years ago, but they aren’t good enough for him now that he is famous. He won’t talk to her or acknowledge when they run into each other. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/142 "2009-04-07T23:04:10Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’m Jewish and I was taught all my life to believe in hell (referred to as Gehenom in Hebrew.) I do think there is a hell, and I do think that Martin Luther is in it. Faith is a personal thing. By and large, I think religion in general is a sham, and I certainly have no part in any organized form of religion at all. But I do believe in hell. And unlike Christians, who would absolve even the most evil of all people of sin if they “accepted” Jesus on their deathbed after a lifetime of massacre and rape, simply by uttering a prayer, I don’t believe in that kind of get out of jail free bullshit. If you live an evil life, you will go to hell. And encouraging the massacre of those who happen to have a different religious faith from your own is an evil life. Interestingly my religion holds all the Jews are going to hell, including all the ones wronged by Martin Luther and later anti-semites. As a Catholic I’ve never been a huge fan of Luther even aside from his anti-semitism (which to be honest doesn’t concern me in the least, most Europeans hated the Jews, they were a minority that was very different and historically that has always lead to hatred), but I think he was an ultimate force for good in the Catholic church in the long term even though he is the father of Protestantism. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/143 "2009-04-07T23:19:38Z")
Just out of curiosity, what’s jerkish about Roethlisberger? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/144 "2009-04-07T23:20:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Interestingly my religion holds all the Jews are going to hell, including all the ones wronged by Martin Luther and later anti-semites. As a Catholic I’ve never been a huge fan of Luther even aside from his anti-semitism (which to be honest doesn’t concern me in the least, most Europeans hated the Jews, they were a minority that was very different and historically that has always lead to hatred), but I think he was an ultimate force for good in the Catholic church in the long term even though he is the father of Protestantism. I was never taught as a Catholic that all Jews were going to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/145 "2009-04-07T23:29:43Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Interestingly my religion holds all the Jews are going to hell, including all the ones wronged by Martin Luther and later anti-semites. As a Catholic I’ve never been a huge fan of Luther even aside from his anti-semitism (which to be honest doesn’t concern me in the least, most Europeans hated the Jews, they were a minority that was very different and historically that has always lead to hatred), but I think he was an ultimate force for good in the Catholic church in the long term even though he is the father of Protestantism. Didn’t the Pope say recently that Jews aren’t necessarily all going to Hell? ---
**Author:** ![Wiggie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/0ea827/32.png) [@Wiggie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiggie)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/146 "2009-04-07T23:38:26Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Harlan Ellison. I had heard nothing but positive stories about him - people singing his praises left and right about what a kind, polite guy he was, how he was always extremely nice to fans and never argumentative or pushy, and completely unpretentious. I was seriously stunned when he shoved my face into a urinal in the bathroom of the Embassy Suites in Chicago and whipped me with a belt after I asked him for an autograph. Seriously? He’s one of the few celebrities I have met and I certainly didn’t find him to be assholish. But then, it was over 30 years ago - maybe he didn’t age well. On the other hand - whipping you with a belt? I can’t but feel I’ve just been whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/147 "2009-04-07T23:44:45Z")
I heard Martin Lawrence doesn’t grant wishes with make a wish kids. Thats a jerk move in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/148 "2009-04-08T00:04:56Z")
> [@Wiggie](#): > > Seriously? He’s one of the few celebrities I have met and I certainly didn’t find him to be assholish. But then, it was over 30 years ago - maybe he didn’t age well. > > On the other hand - whipping you with a belt? I can’t but feel I’ve just been whooshed. You were definitly whooshed by the belt whipping part, but Ellison is particularly infamous as being a gigantic jerk, and has been for more than thirty years. [Here’s a recent thread about him.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=512650&highlight=harlan) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/149 "2009-04-08T00:18:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Stan Getz. For a guy who could reach your soul with his sax, the guy was an incredibly huge asshole to everyone around him. It just doesn’t seem to go together. Music often tolerates, maybe even cultivates, harsh personalities. The list of tyrannical symphony conductors is as long as it is venerated. If it produces great results, the profession stands by it. There’s a tradition, also, that an instrumentalist shows loyalty to his teachers, and the harshest teachers often inspired the highest loyalty. Music, like dance, is an _abstract_ art as well as a performing art. It is, finally, not about anything human, and it has long been assumed that humans have to put something of their humanity aside and become its “instruments.” For better or worse, that’s how dedication is understood at the highest levels. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/150 "2009-04-08T00:53:49Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Just out of curiosity, what’s jerkish about Roethlisberger? As someone stated below about Lawrence, he refuses to participate in “Make a Wish” type events with children. My cousin’s fiance is a pediatric oncologist here in Pittsburgh. One of her patients had one wish-to meet “Big Ben”, and he absolutely refused. Eventually, they had to tell the poor kid he was just a jerk. The Steelers visit the kids on a regular basis-he never bothers to come. (Troy Polamalu, on the other hand, is a total sweetie, she says) He’s known for being rude and obnoxious. I also learned that Coach Cowher had a habit of spitting during games-and didn’t give a shit who he hit. Actually, **Martin** , I believe I’ve been taught that only God alone knows who goes to Heaven and Hell. Catholicism is the best WAY, but Jews going to Hell is NOT a belief in the Catholic Church. I’d like a cite for that being a modern church teaching. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/151 "2009-04-08T00:58:31Z")
Of the celebrities I’ve met the rudest (if the word celebrity still applies to him), that most people would have heard of anyway, is Gallagher (the watermelon smashing comedian). Obnoxious, whiney, stuck-up little shit, and his wife at the time (imagine Fran Drescher with a buzz cut and in motorcycle leathers) gave every indication of being either stoned or drunk. (They’ve since divorced I believe.) I’ve read in other sources (tabloids and web sites admittedly, but also in court records that have been published from legal papers) that he’s generally regarded as thoroughly obnoxious. There was an AMC host whose name I cannot remember- I could google it but I’ll spare him- who was actually nice but kept on trying to pick me and every other guy under 30 (at the time) up. He was then in his 50s I’d guess- not a bad looking “in his 50s”, but “in his 50s”, and wouldn’t leave us the hell alone. Even in Alabama an AMC host doesn’t qualify you for a starfucker patch. A friend who was backstage during a speaking engagement of Al Franken in B’ham, AL a few years ago said he was a colossal prick. No personal experience to go on though. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/152 "2009-04-08T02:19:36Z")
Huge asshole is rather too strong, but I was very disappointed with Pete Seeger and lost a lot of respect for him. The date was, IIRC, Feb. 25, 1993. Memorable because the first World Trade Center bombing was the next day, so you can look it up. My daughter sang with a group called The Streetsingers that had been organized by Seeger. On that night, the group was to sing at a black history month celebration in a HS in Brooklyn. (I don’t recall which one, but it is not important.) My wife and I accompanied our daughter to the HS and sat in the audience. This was the height of black anti-semitism. So Seeger introduced the evening with a speech in celebration of the diversity found in NYC and mentioned “all” the various groups that had gone into making NYC great. He mentioned the Dutch, the English, the Germans, the Italians, the blacks, the Hispanics,…, omitting the people who made up 25% of the city, obviously in deference to black sensibility. It was a disgusting performance. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/153 "2009-04-08T03:43:33Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > …(Jewish doctors probably could have helped him, since the Jews actually gave a shit about education and learning at a time when everyone else was illiterate. But I doubt he would have accepted their help, being that they were an evil, filthy race and all [despite the fact that they survived the Black Plague in far higher numbers than the Christians because of the revolutionary, ingenious Jewish practice of taking a fucking bath.])… > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > …And unlike Christians, who would absolve even the most evil of all people of sin if they “accepted” Jesus on their deathbed after a lifetime of massacre and rape, simply by uttering a prayer, I don’t believe in that kind of get out of jail free bullshit… Bigotry. It’s what’s for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/154 "2009-04-08T04:42:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, **Martin** , I believe I’ve been taught that only God alone knows who goes to Heaven and Hell. Catholicism is the best WAY, but Jews going to Hell is NOT a belief in the Catholic Church. I’d like a cite for that being a modern church teaching. Growing up Lutheran (btw, the anti-Luther stuff doesn’t totally bother me since I know very little of the man, and if I was taught it, it was prolly propaganda) I was simply told the key to going to Heaven was believing that Jesus was our savior, and that he died and rose for our sins. Since Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and don’t believe in his death and resurrection, than they are NOT going to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/155 "2009-04-08T10:09:29Z")
> [@drpepper](#): > > I read the mainstream Lindbergh biography that came out a few years ago (can’t remember who wrote it; reputable biographer, IIRC) that seemed fairly well-researched and well-balanced, and the portrait I have of him is a a guy who was nose-to-the-grindstone, earnest, honestly-motivated, a bit socially awkward, a relatively austere upbringing, the pro-Nazi sentiments ascribed to him were due to honestly-come-by and naive isolationism along with a few naive visits to Germany to check out the Luftwaffe. > [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Nice of you to say!!! > > I dont even remember where I first heard this, it was also a big shock to me as well; all I knew about Lindburgh was the flight across the Atlantic and then the kidnapping—the “Nazi apologist” angle from an American hero was certainly out of left field The Nazi thing was a smear by those against him. In the 30s he went to Germany and was wined and dined. His unstated mission was to report to the US Government about the capabilities of the Luftwaffe. Partially because it was far superior and partially because he was tricked into thinking it was even more superior than it was, Lindbergh came to the conclusion that war with Germany was suicide. He also had an isolationist view of America. He became involved in the America First movement. Not a Nazi support group, a group which advocated keeping America out of European conflicts. When war broke out he attempted to reactivate his commission but was denied. Instead he became a civilian consultant who taught pilots in the Pacific to fly with greater loads and to fly longer distances. As a civilian and completely unpublicized he flew multiple combat missions including bombing runs and shoot down at least one enemy plane. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/156 "2009-04-08T10:48:20Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Growing up Lutheran (btw, the anti-Luther stuff doesn’t totally bother me since I know very little of the man, and if I was taught it, it was prolly propaganda) I was simply told the key to going to Heaven was believing that Jesus was our savior, and that he died and rose for our sins. Since Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and don’t believe in his death and resurrection, than they are NOT going to heaven. I believe that when we see Christians saying that “the Jews are going go heaven,” we’re usually looking at “dual covenant theory”. I’m reasonably certain that the official Catholic position includes dual covenant theology. I have no clue how Lutheran theology handles this. Wikiquote: _Dual-covenant theology is primarily found in Christian theology and teaches that Jews can go to Heaven simply by keeping the Law of Moses, because of the “everlasting covenant”[1] between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament), whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity._ Wikicite: [Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-covenant_theology) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/157 "2009-04-08T11:08:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I was never taught as a Catholic that all Jews were going to Hell. Then you probably weren’t taught that A\*B = AB, it’s the only real logical conclusion. AKA, while no one ever told me “the Jews are going to burn”, for that to be untrue a huge portion of the faith would make no sense whatsoever. What are my beliefs on it? My beliefs exactly echo the ones later expressed: it’s not my place to know or speculate. While Jews don’t have a similar concept of after life I still think it quite presumptuous (especially from a guy who claimed only Jews were literate in the middle ages) for anyone to assume they know factually what the post-life fate of a given historical figure happens to be. I only brought it up to illustrate a point, that whatever your religion one should probably be careful about speaking as though you know factually what happens to anyone when they die (especially since the only verifiable evidence we have points to oblivion–and I say that as a fully believing Catholic.) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/158 "2009-04-08T11:19:20Z")
They even allowed him to fly the Messerschmitt 109 (as did Major Al Williams, correspondent for Colonel McCormick’s _Chicago Daily Tribune_ who reported the war in Spain from a pro-Nationalist viewpoint) > [@Loach](#): > > The Nazi thing was a smear by those against him. In the 30s he went to Germany and was wined and dined. His unstated mission was to report to the US Government about the capabilities of the Luftwaffe. Partially because it was far superior and partially because he was tricked into thinking it was even more superior than it was, Lindbergh came to the conclusion that war with Germany was suicide. He also had an isolationist view of America. He became involved in the America First movement. Not a Nazi support group, a group which advocated keeping America out of European conflicts. When war broke out he attempted to reactivate his commission but was denied. Instead he became a civilian consultant who taught pilots in the Pacific to fly with greater loads and to fly longer distances. As a civilian and completely unpublicized he flew multiple combat missions including bombing runs and shoot down at least one enemy plane. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/159 "2009-04-08T12:19:01Z")
Did’nt Anne have an affair with her doctor in the early 50’s, which is what led Lindhburgh to his extra marital activities. A decade earlier, J. Edgar Hoover had investigated Lindhburghs personal life and found nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/160 "2009-04-08T12:27:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I was never taught as a Catholic that all Jews were going to Hell. You are a post Vatican II Catholic. The “softer” church. However, if you have to believe in Jesus to get to heaven (a belief I was taught as a post Vatican II Catholic) the best non-Christians are going to do is purgatory. At least the Catholics have purgatory, which the nuns assured me was not a bad place for Jews… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109.md?page=9)