# What famous figures were you most surprised to discover were huge assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109 "2009-04-06T05:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/161 "2009-04-08T12:35:13Z")
James Dean I understand was not a very nice guy- full of hate. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/162 "2009-04-08T12:51:52Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > James Dean I understand was not a very nice guy- full of hate. Sort of a…I don’t know…rebel? Without a cause, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/163 "2009-04-08T13:05:20Z")
Can I make an official request that all the “who’s going to hell” discussion be taken to its own thread? ---
**Author:** ![Ro\_Carter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Ro\_Carter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ro_Carter)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/164 "2009-04-08T15:12:44Z")
To carry on the point from earlier, according to friends from the Pittsburgh area, Ben Roethlisburger is known as being an asshole. He’ll go into restaurants with a huge crew of people, insist that they are seated immediately (regardless of how busy the place is), then when the check comes, insist that the meal be free because of the publicity the place will get from him being there. They also still object to him being stupid and selfish enough to ride a motorcycle without a license or helmet, and then crash it and bust himself up. The one that surprised me most, personally, was (as has been mentioned and discussed earlier) Thomas Edison. When I was younger I’d always had him on my list of “Cool historical figures”, and then when I found out how he stole other people’s work and in general tried his level best to sink anyone that was trying to compete with him, I lost all respect for him. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/165 "2009-04-08T16:26:02Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I read a biography of Stan Getz once, back when I used to play the sax. I think the main reason he was an asshole was because he was either drunk, or jonesing for heroin, **all the time.** Most of the great jazz musicians of that era had major problems with drugs and drinking but Stan Getz’s was very likely the worst of them all. He was very violent, would lash out at people physically, beat up his wives and girlfriends all the time, and once took his saxophone and smashed it against a tree until it was bent in half. He was a true Jekyll and Hyde type, and when he was drinking, or didn’t have access to heroin, he turned into a monster. This is a shock to me. I’ve never heard nor read about any addiction on his part, nor has my wife (who is much better versed in jazz than I). But it would explain his aggressive behavior, I guess. On this same theme, Miles Davis and Chet Baker could be assholish and extremely manipulative, but their “track” record is well known. ---
**Author:** ![PharmBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@PharmBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PharmBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/166 "2009-04-08T17:16:26Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Stan Getz. For a guy who could reach your soul with his sax, the guy was an incredibly huge asshole to everyone around him. It just doesn’t seem to go together. Benny Goodman was also a real jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/167 "2009-04-08T17:59:51Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Nazi thing was a smear by those against him. Lindbergh’s record wasn’t as cut-and-dried as you make it here. While he wasn’t a Nazi or a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-semite, neither was he a model of tolerance. For example, here is an excerpt from his diary on the subject of Kristallnacht: > [@](#): > > I do not understand these riots on the part of the Germans," he wrote. "It seems so contrary to their sense of order and intelligence. They have undoubtedly had a difficult ‘Jewish problem,’ but why is it necessary to handle it so unreasonably? More from his diary: > [@](#): > > We must limit to a reasonable amount the Jewish influence… Whenever the Jewish percentage of total population becomes too high, a reaction seems to invariably occur. It is too bad because a few Jews of the right type are, I believe, an asset to any country. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/168 "2009-04-08T18:33:19Z")
I was disappointed to hear about Rosa Parks. The civil rights struggles are taught with such reverence you expect the leaders to be saints, but they are just people after all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/169 "2009-04-08T18:53:26Z")
I don’t think what she did is any less virtuous even if she only did it because she was a cranky bitch. Even if so, she was a cranky bitch that was right, and that’s what matters. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/170 "2009-04-08T19:14:16Z")
On the subject of Martin Luther and anti-semitism, I’d say [his own words](http://www.awitness.org/books/luther/on_jews_and_their_lies_p2.html) make a strong case against him. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/171 "2009-04-08T20:02:36Z")
> [@drpepper](#): > > I read the mainstream Lindbergh biography that came out a few years ago (can’t remember who wrote it; reputable biographer, IIRC) that seemed fairly well-researched and well-balanced, and the portrait I have of him is a a guy who was nose-to-the-grindstone, earnest, honestly-motivated, a bit socially awkward, a relatively austere upbringing, the pro-Nazi sentiments ascribed to him were due to honestly-come-by and naive isolationism along with a few naive visits to Germany to check out the Luftwaffe. This lets him off the hook far too easily. For balance, check out _The American Axis_, which looks at the racist and pro-German attitudes of Lindbergh and Henry Ford, and reveals some very ugly facts about both. Lindbergh, for one, was a close associate of a controversial French scientist who believed in the inferiority of some races and the need to “eliminate” undesirables from society. Lindbergh went beyond isolationism as far as the Nazis were concerned and was a defeatist and anti-British at a time when the British were struggling alone early in the war to hold back the Nazis. His visits to Germany [went further](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/lindbergh/sfeature/fallen.html) than being impressed by military development: _“The organized vitality of Germany was what most impressed me: the unceasing activity of the people, and the convinced dictatorial direction to create the new factories, airfields, and research laboratories…,” Lindbergh recalled in “Autobiography of Values.” His wife drew similar conclusions. “…I have never in my life been so conscious of such a directed force. It is thrilling when seen manifested in the energy, pride, and morale of the people–especially the young people,” she wrote in “The Flower and the Nettle.” By 1938, the Lindberghs were making plans to move to Berlin…_ In his role as bigwig in the “America First” isolationist organization, Lindbergh made highly publicized speeches urging America to stay out of the war, and his beliefs made him increasingly unpopular. One particular address (on 9/11/41) was the icing on the cake: _With his hero status already greatly tarnished by his philosophical and political beliefs, Lindbergh delivered a speech in Des Moines that fully knocked him off his pedestal. Announcing that it was time to “name names,” Lindbergh decided to identify what he saw as the pressure groups pushing the U.S. into war against Germany. “The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt Administration.” Of the Jews, he went on to say, “Instead of agitating for war, **Jews in this country should be opposing it in every way, for they will be the first to feel its consequences.** Their greatest danger to this country lies in their large ownership and influence in our motion pictures, our press, our radio and our government.”_ You can view that as naivete, or loathsome bigotry. I vote for the latter. He never seriously repudiated these views. He did discover patriotism (of a sort, anyway) after America entered the war. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/172 "2009-04-09T03:15:53Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I don’t think what she did is any less virtuous even if she only did it because she was a cranky bitch. > Even if so, she was a cranky bitch that was right, and that’s what matters. Hey-her being a “cranky bitch” makes me admire her that much more! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/173 "2009-04-09T03:42:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Bugs Bunny. On-screen he was a law-of-physics bending crossdressing sarcastic funnyman, but off screen he told the House UnAmerican Activities Committee that Foghorn Leghorn, Porky Pig and Road Runner were a Communist cell, routinely beat his does and had them reabsorb their litters in order to avoid paying child support, insisted that his wards Buster and Bunny have only Pay-for-Play contracts to keep their residuals, and introduced the Beatles, the Who, Cary Grant and Jimi Hendrix to Lapine Sense Deepener (LSD) all while authoring constant screeds under assumed name denouncing Jews, foreigners, Catholics, and- for no apparent reason- Vivian Vance in the most hateful of terms. I hope he burns in hell. The winner! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/174 "2009-04-09T04:05:38Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Harlan Ellison. I had heard nothing but positive stories about him - people singing his praises left and right about what a kind, polite guy he was, how he was always extremely nice to fans and never argumentative or pushy, and completely unpretentious. I was seriously stunned when he shoved my face into a urinal in the bathroom of the Embassy Suites in Chicago and whipped me with a belt after I asked him for an autograph. Did you consider any legal action? Did you tell anyone afterwards? I have zero respect, absolutely zero, for any celebrity who treats the fans that way. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/175 "2009-04-09T04:15:12Z")
> [@sunshine and smiles](#): > > the goatse guy? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/176 "2009-04-09T04:17:47Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > This is purely academic curiosity, but I’ve never heard of anyone arguing anything BUT yersinia pestis for the Black Death. Can you point me to some examples, if you have a chance? [hijack][http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/blackdeath/default.htm[/hijack]](http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/blackdeath/default.htm%5B/hijack%5D) ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/177 "2009-04-09T04:22:29Z")
Denis Leary? Although he just had that song… I suspect if I knew him personally, he’d kick my sorry ass 24-7 for giving in to this shit that’s going on with me… And then he’d help take care of me. I think he’s just that kinda guy, and sometimes it takes assholes to motivate ourselves to be better. Q ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/178 "2009-04-09T04:59:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On the subject of Martin Luther and anti-semitism, I’d say [his own words](http://www.awitness.org/books/luther/on_jews_and_their_lies_p2.html) make a strong case against him. I don’t think anyone denies Martin Luther was an anti-semite; but so were most of his peers. My only real qualm with **Argent Towers** was his glaring historical inaccuracies, and it’s something I’ve noticed a lot with some Jews–this “chosen people” stuff often manifests itself into thinking like “only the Jews were literate in the Middle Ages, which is why they were so much better than the dirty, stupid Christians.” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/179 "2009-04-09T05:48:06Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Did you consider any legal action? Did you tell anyone afterwards? I have zero respect, absolutely zero, for any celebrity who treats the fans that way. I was just joking. I’ve never met Harlan Ellison, and he certainly never attacked me. I mean, shoved my face into a urinal and whipped me with a belt? A five-foot-nothing, seventy-four year old man? I’m surprised you actually thought I was serious. No, I was just trying to riff off of the very commonly discussed perception of Ellison as being a jerk. (I doubt anyone would be “surprised” to find that Ellison was an asshole - the surprise would be that he turned out to actually be a really nice guy.) ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109/180 "2009-04-09T06:35:59Z")
> [@MickNickMaggies](#): > > Conversely, **Hillary Hahn** and Mark Bowden are lovely. [_SWOON_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WcoNXqMVfE&feature=related) \<3 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-famous-figures-were-you-most-surprised-to-discover-were-huge-assholes/492109.md?page=10)