# What films in history have had the greatest divergence between popular & critical opinion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231 "2012-12-26T22:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/41 "2012-12-28T01:43:38Z")
> [@Sam\_A.Robrin](#): > > Tom Laughlin was so chagrined by this phenomenon in regard to his “Billy Jack” films that he actually suggested approaching “our” legislators to see to it that all movies got a favorable review along with a pan. Poor sucker’s still trying to foist his ideal of utopia off on the rest of us, but his fan base has largely deserted him for different delusions… Was _Billy Jack_ really any more popular with the public than it was with the critics? (It is worth seeing, BTW, but only for educational purposes, as a kind of remarkable cultural artifact of a remarkable anything-can-happen period. You will sit in amazement wondering how this film got made. “Low budget” seems too weak a phrase.) ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/42 "2012-12-28T02:54:39Z")
The list of movies that critics panned that were loved by the public had to be loooooong. Same for the reverse. Public and critical opinion divergence isn’t exactly rare. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/43 "2012-12-28T03:40:22Z")
_Piss Christ: The Movie_ (ok, I made that up). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/44 "2012-12-28T03:48:53Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > _Piss Christ: The Movie_ > > (ok, I made that up). [stuns **Lumpy** with a tire iron] No, **I** made that up! [catches plane to Hollywood] ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/45 "2012-12-28T17:04:45Z")
Am I crazy but don’t both of these things happen almost all the time? There are countless small and medium sized movies critics rave about that audiences ignore and there are dozens of movies that make kajillions of dollars that no critic that isn’t a quote whore said anything good about. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/46 "2012-12-28T17:33:51Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Am I crazy but don’t both of these things happen almost all the time? There are countless small and medium sized movies critics rave about that audiences ignore and there are dozens of movies that make kajillions of dollars that no critic that isn’t a quote whore said anything good about. Is making money the same thing as being loved by the public? Some of those small movies are adored by the people who actually see them, and some of the blockbusters are considered disappointing by audiences. IIRC, the 1998 Hollywood _Godzilla_ movie made plenty of money but wasn’t particularly well-liked by theatergoers. It currently has a 38% “liked it” score from [Rotten Tomatoes voters](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/godzilla/), and according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla_%281998_film%29#Reception) while the movie had a huge opening weekend its revenues dropped nearly 60% in the second week of release which suggests it had bad word of mouth. I was in high school when _Godzilla_ was released and presumably people around my age (or more specifically boys around my age) were the target audience for this movie, but while I knew people who saw it I don’t remember anyone ever describing it as being good. I do remember some lunch room jokes about how dumb it was. I did know people who liked, say, _Independence Day_, so it’s not like my young friends were all a bunch of little hipsters who only watched foreign art films. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/47 "2012-12-28T18:19:20Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > They were right. It’s a horrific cinematic abomination, and it’s current high status isn’t based on popular opinion, but an even more self-selected group of cinemaphiles. I’m glad someone else already said this. I’ve never met anyone who actually liked the movie. The best I’ve ever heard anyone personally say was that they didn’t get it. It seems to me that a lot of people must have thought “oh, look at all this weird stuff and it doesn’t make sense. It must not make sense because it’s all artsy and over my head.” When it’s really just that it’s really just a terrible film. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/48 "2012-12-28T19:00:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Titanic wasn’t panned by critics, not even close. Hell, the main film reviewer for the NYT compared it favorably to Gone With the Wind. Titanic suffered from bad advance buzz because of its sheer cost and stories of overruns and difficulties on the set. Then IIRC it didn’t open huge, just opened well - so it took a while to realize it was getting tons of repeat business which was how it made such big $$… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/49 "2012-12-28T19:07:36Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’ve never met anyone who actually liked the movie. I do. Do you post about movies much here? I’m sure I am not the only one. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > it’s current high status isn’t based on popular opinion, but an even more self-selected group of cinemaphiles. > [@Blaster Master](#): > > It seems to me that a lot of people must have thought “oh, look at all this weird stuff and it doesn’t make sense. It must not make sense because it’s all artsy and over my head.” When it’s really just that it’s really just a terrible film. This is an empty criticism. If you don’t like it, fine. Arguing that nobody else _really_ likes it - either their opinions don’t count (the opinions of cinemaphiles don’t count?) or they’re pretending to like it - is just bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/50 "2012-12-28T19:13:28Z")
[Armageddon](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/armageddon/#top-critics-numbers). 16% Rotten rating, made half a billion dollars worldwide. Terrible movie. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/51 "2012-12-28T19:16:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Titanic suffered from bad advance buzz because of its sheer cost and stories of overruns and difficulties on the set. Then IIRC it didn’t open huge, just opened well - so it took a while to realize it was getting tons of repeat business which was how it made such big $$… It opened at number one in the weekend box office. Beating a James Bond film. It stayed at number one from December to March. There was an “early” review, Time Magazine that was not kind. It was published before it was supposed to be. (before the movie opening) I’d say any action film. Transformers. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/52 "2012-12-28T20:38:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m sure I am not the only one. You are not. I think it’s a masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/53 "2012-12-28T21:09:41Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Loved by critics, not so much by the public, or dissed by critics, but embraced by the masses. What films are examples of this dichotomy? The example that first springs to my mind is Tyler Perry and his _Madea_ films, which are either panned by critics or not even screened for them - it’s less controversial that way - but are consistently popular. The first three grossed $50m, $60m, and $90m respectively. The disconnect between the critics and Perry’s audience is notable in itself (Roger Ebert [was accused of racism](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050301/COMMENTARY/50303001) for giving the first movie a bad writeup, although he wasn’t entirely scathing). [Here’s an article](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-12/news/0503120020_1_funny-moment-roger-ebert) on that very subject, from the Chicago Tribune. "Read the reviews of last weekend’s top-grossing movie, “Diary of a Mad Black Woman,” and it’s pretty clear that most mainstream critics had never before heard of Tyler Perry and thought Madea was a misspelling of the woman associated with Euripides. It’s clear evidence that entertainment in America remains a largely segmented business. But for the 4,300 crammed – and every last seat was taken – into the Arie Crown Theatre Thursday, Perry and Madea (his drag alter ego) have been familiar and beloved for years. Perry (and Madea) are megastars of the “urban attraction” touring theater circuit, a black-owned entity that floats perfectly happily under most white cultural radars because it doesn’t need white audiences. In this world, the pistol-packing Grandma Madea is like a black version of Dame Edna Everage – an iconic authority figure who can be stuffed into any plot and still send her fans into hysterics." ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/54 "2012-12-29T02:37:36Z")
I can’t prove it, but I think there were at least a couple film genres that tended to be badly reviewed yet do OK at the box office. Eventually critics became more accepting. I’m thinking horror in particular, but I suspect that science fiction, monster movies, blacksploitation, teen films, etc. also suffered bad reviews by critics who just weren’t the target audience. The original _Night of the Living Dead_ is generally recognized as a classic now, or at least as influential. Some critics admired it at the time, according to Wikipedia. I guess the best you could say is that it got mixed reviews. _The Exorcist_ also received mixed reviews but did well at the box office-- second highest of the year. Possibly in recognition of how well it did, it received a couple Oscar nominations, including the first nomination ever of a horror film for Best Picture. I think that last sentence says a lot. There were dozens of classic horror films prior to 1973. Not even _Bride of Frankenstein_, _Rosemary’s Baby_, or _The Haunting_ deserved a Best Picture nomination? I’ll also chime in that I like _2001_ OK. It has some great scenes and is one of the few films marketed as science fiction that resembled science fiction. I’m not a fan of the psychedelic ending-- which is, IMO, just a trope that used to be popular. I guess it helps that I tend to like Kubrick’s other films. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/55 "2012-12-29T02:46:29Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’m glad someone else already said this. I’ve never met anyone who actually liked the movie. The best I’ve ever heard anyone personally say was that they didn’t get it. It seems to me that a lot of people must have thought “oh, look at all this weird stuff and it doesn’t make sense. It must not make sense because it’s all artsy and over my head.” When it’s really just that it’s really just a terrible film. It’s like that snoozer _Hamlet_: just a lot of overused devices strung together. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/56 "2012-12-29T03:53:52Z")
Quite famously D.W. Griffith’s _Intolerance_ was hailed by critics as a total masterpiece, but was a total flop commercially. _The Boondock Saints_ could very well be the definition. It’s been torn apart by most all critics, but it’s got one hell of a following. _The Thing_ received what was, at best, a middling reception from critics at release. But it’s been more than redeemed in the following years. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/57 "2012-12-29T05:02:13Z")
2001 is a good movie, even great. I just figure the last part was where everyone was supposed to toke up. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231/58 "2012-12-29T05:16:15Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Titanic suffered from bad advance buzz because of its sheer cost and stories of overruns and difficulties on the set. Then IIRC it didn’t open huge, just opened well - so it took a while to realize it was getting tons of repeat business which was how it made such big $$… The story of the _making_ of the movie was as you speak, but early reviews were extremely positive. Just check out the 1-1-2000\* reviews of Titanic over at Rotten Tomatoes. You’ll see such quotes as: > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > I found myself convinced by both the story and the saga. > [@Michael Wilmington](#): > > Titanic is a film that sweeps us away into a world of spectacle, beauty and excitement. > [@Carlo Cavagna](#): > > The genius of Titanic does not lie in the story itself. It lies in how the story is told. > [@Owen Gleiberman](#): > > A lush and terrifying spectacle of romantic doom. > [@Jonathan Rosenbaum](#): > > For better and for worse, this is a movie that appears to believe in what it’s saying – and the lack of cynicism is refreshing. Are there negative reviews? Yes, every movie has them. Regardless, of the 62 reviews dated 1-1-2000, 11 are negative and 51 (81%) are positive. So _Titanic_ doesn’t really fit this thread. **Tyler Perry** , who I mentioned in post 25, does. \*No reviews are dated earlier, so we can assume many of these were original (1997) reviews for the film. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-films-in-history-have-had-the-greatest-divergence-between-popular-critical-opinion/645231.md?page=2)