# what forms of torture do not leave any physical marks or evidence **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586 "2013-10-18T16:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/21 "2013-10-18T22:46:28Z")
I seem to recall reading somewhere that fake execution is one of the most traumatic and, unfortunately, most common forms of torture. It’s effect very quickly tapers off with repeated application, so it’s really only useful for interrogation. Basically you convince the subject you’re going to kill them right now and then give them a sudden reprieve. One example mentioned the subject being taken to a known execution area, blindfolded, made to kneel, and having a gun pressed against the back of his/her head for a several seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/22 "2013-10-19T00:52:44Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > I seem to recall reading somewhere that fake execution is one of the most traumatic and, unfortunately, most common forms of torture. It’s effect very quickly tapers off with repeated application, so it’s really only useful for interrogation. > > Basically you convince the subject you’re going to kill them right now and then give them a sudden reprieve. One example mentioned the subject being taken to a known execution area, blindfolded, made to kneel, and having a gun pressed against the back of his/her head for a several seconds. One of the methods the US has used to torture detainees in the war on terror is telling them they are being sent to nations where they will be tortured, and sometimes (so I’ve read reports of this) having US soldiers dressed like jailers in places like Egypt so the prisoner has no idea where he is. Of course we also actually send people to nations where they get tortured (violating various international and domestic laws) but as Obama so cheerfully says ‘we have to look forward not backwards’ which means any serious investigation will bring down tons of politicians on both sides so lets sweep it under the rug. The rule of law was nice back when it applied to the rich and the powerful. Thats a tangent. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/23 "2013-10-19T01:24:46Z")
Beat them with a bag of oranges! ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/24 "2013-10-19T04:28:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > One of the methods the US has used to torture detainees in the war on terror is telling them they are being sent to nations where they will be tortured, and sometimes (so I’ve read reports of this) having US soldiers dressed like jailers in places like Egypt so the prisoner has no idea where he is. > > Of course we also actually send people to nations where they get tortured (violating various international and domestic laws) but as Obama so cheerfully says ‘we have to look forward not backwards’ which means any serious investigation will bring down tons of politicians on both sides so lets sweep it under the rug. The rule of law was nice back when it applied to the rich and the powerful. Thats a tangent. Yes, Maher Arar ( [Maher Arar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar) ) was sent to Syria while passing through JFK on his way home to Canada, where he is a citizen (and should have been deported to). Syria did there best, and were not worried about leaving marks. Syria concluded he had zero connection to terrorists and let him go after a year of torture. Canada admitted their error and compensated him $10M for providing false information suggesting he was a terrorist. The USA still insist he is a terrorist, has him on the no-fly list, and blocks any lawsuit with claims of “government security - classified secrets”. And of course the USA insists they did nothing wrong, Syria promised not to torture him, and there’s no evidence that he was tortured there, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/25 "2013-10-19T04:34:30Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The legendary [Mike Royko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Royko)once claimed that Chicago Police interrogated prisoners by slamming the city’s huge phone books repeatedly down on the prisoners’ heads. He said this left no marks but made the prisoner feel like his spine had been compressed into a small cube. I have no idea how true any of that is. Yes, a cop told me that he used to put a phone book on a prisoner and swing his club at it with full force. Traffic and other policemen do it now using their ticket clipboards. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/26 "2013-10-19T06:02:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The legendary [Mike Royko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Royko)once claimed that Chicago Police interrogated prisoners by slamming the city’s huge phone books repeatedly down on the prisoners’ heads. He said this left no marks but made the prisoner feel like his spine had been compressed into a small cube. I have no idea how true any of that is. You may be entirely correct but the way I heard to use such torture (and this isn’t necessarily Chicago) was to put a thick phone book on the persons head and then hit it with a crowbar. Intense pain and confusion but no physical marks. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/27 "2013-10-19T06:50:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Torturing someone the victim cares about in front of them. This. The only way to fight it is to convince them that you really don’t care for the person. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/28 "2013-10-19T07:09:32Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Beat them with a bag of oranges! Bring out … the Comfy Chair! (You weren’t … expecting that, were you?) I remember a scene from one or the other of the awful Punisher comic book movies where The Punisher had some bad guy strung up, intending to interrogate him. In full view of the bad guy, he busied himself setting up a blowtorch while describing in detail how he could get it hot enough that it would actually register as _cold_ when applied to human flesh. Then he took the torch around behind the guy, and used it on a raw steak (to get that burning flesh smell) while shoving a popsicle into the guy’s spine. He had the guy screaming bloody murder and spilling every secret he knew about his boss. That one made sense to me. One of my favorite practical jokes in a restaurant kitchen is to stick a pot in the freezer to get it nice and cold, then carry it with oven mitts while warning bystanders “HOT PAN!” … and then “accidentally” bump somebody with it 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/29 "2013-10-19T12:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Bring out … the Comfy Chair! > > (You weren’t … expecting that, were you?) Tickle torture. I’m [entirely serious](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture). _“Chinese tickle torture is an ancient form of torture practiced by the Chinese, in particular the courts of the Han Dynasty. Chinese tickle torture was a punishment for nobility since it left no marks and a victim could recover relatively easily and quickly … tickle torture was used in ancient Rome, where a person’s feet were dipped in a salt solution, and a goat was brought in to lick the solution off. This type of tickle torture would only start as tickling, eventually becoming extremely painful … he could not restrain himself and finally he broke out in a high-pitched laughter that very soon turned into a cry of pain, while the tears ran down his face, and his body twisted against his chains. After this tickling torture, they let the lad hang there for a little, while a flood of tears ran down his cheeks and he cried and sobbed uncontrollably … abusive tickling is capable of provoking extreme physiological reactions in the victim, such as vomiting and losing consciousness.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_York](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/30 "2013-10-19T13:15:13Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I used to hold my sister down and let a toad pee on her face, never left any marks. I don’t know why she didn’t get warts?? How I wish there was the internet when I was a kid, my sister really deserved toad pee in her face. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/31 "2013-10-19T14:01:29Z")
Apparently there is even a term for this, ‘clean torture’ and it started in democratic nations as a way to torture while avoiding bad publicity. > **[The history of CIA torture](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/03/the-history-of-cia-torture.html)** > > In the 20th century, there were two main traditions of clean torture—the kind that doesn't leave marks, as modern torturers prefer. The first is... ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/32 "2013-10-19T14:05:15Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, Maher Arar ( [Maher Arar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar) ) was sent to Syria while passing through JFK on his way home to Canada, where he is a citizen (and should have been deported to). Syria did there best, and were not worried about leaving marks. Syria concluded he had zero connection to terrorists and let him go after a year of torture. Canada admitted their error and compensated him $10M for providing false information suggesting he was a terrorist. The USA still insist he is a terrorist, has him on the no-fly list, and blocks any lawsuit with claims of “government security - classified secrets”. > > And of course the USA insists they did nothing wrong, Syria promised not to torture him, and there’s no evidence that he was tortured there, etc… At least Canada did the right thing, at least it appears they did. The prime minister apologized and they gave him recompensation. the US is hiding its guilt. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/33 "2013-10-19T14:05:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Marriage Trigger reported. ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/34 "2013-10-19T18:19:59Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > In the UK there’s a sort of running joke about Police wrapping people up in duvets and throwing them down stairs which is supposedly how they extracted confessions from people in the ‘old days’ without leaving evidence such as bruising or cuts. However I don’t know if there’s a grain of truth in it. This is the first I’ve ever heard of it… Are you sure someone isn’t trying to pull the wool over your eyes? ---
**Author:** ![mendi80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@mendi80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mendi80)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/35 "2013-10-19T19:45:50Z")
burn him totally… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/36 "2013-10-20T03:19:42Z")
Electroshock might work, depending on how big the shocks, and how you apply the electrodes. I guess [ECT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy) might apply, too, but it’s probably not good for interrogation—one of the side effects can be amnesia. On a related tack, I was going to suggest [Transcraniel magnetic stimulation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation) to induce hallucinations, fear, sensing ghostly presences, etc., but a little digging reveals that the good [“God Helmet”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet) effects been independently replicated. Damnit. ☹ Well, on the other hand, that’s what you have [del]torture victims[/del] unfree human test subjects for in the first place, right? I’ve also heard reported that Dubai’s security apparatus has a torture chamber called the “House of Fun” (so nicknamed by it’s builders), which involves a strobe light set at 11hz, syncronized to a white noise generator. Fun. And how stringently are we defining “no physical marks or evidence”? Some pharmaceutical “tortures” might qualify—at least, I can conjecture. This is a bit outside of my area of expertise. “Truth serum,” psychedelic drugs, emetics/laxatives, stuff with unpleasant side effects, narcotics (“Sign the confession/tell us the arming code/scream prettier, and you can have more Heroin.”)…depending on how they’re administered, and how long the subject has to recover afterwards. Or if you really want to get diabolical, _don’t_ torture them. At all. Just…make them watch. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/37 "2013-10-20T03:52:30Z")
I’d say most things mentioned so far wouldn’t count. Marks would be evident unless there was cooperation from the victim. Any hand restraint, for example, would leave marks at the slightest bit of struggling. The victim has to not struggle and cooperate by holding their arms prone. Even torture types that aren’t physical could cause someone to bang their head against the wall, or try to slit their wrists. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/38 "2013-10-20T04:21:09Z")
One high school principal discovered the best deterrence to teenagers mis-behaving: lock them in a room for one hour, listening to old blue eyes. He claims a 100% conversion. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/39 "2013-10-20T05:30:41Z")
Using padded ankle cuffs, suspend the [del]mime[/del] suspect upside down over a pit of scorpions. As an added touch, I like the idea of hanging a sign that says “Use the words” upside down on one of the walls of the pit. I’ve read ginger beer works well. Is that very different from ginger ale? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/40 "2013-10-20T05:40:23Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I’ve read ginger beer works well. Is that very different from ginger ale? I do believe they’re one and the same. Although Coke or extra-fizzy lemonade would presumably work better for the Ginger Beer Trick - more acidic. (for non-Pratchett readers, the Ginger Beer Trick goes thus : pick a guy, tie him down, shake a bottle of fizzy drink until it’s good and ready to pop, then quickly open it right next to the guy’s nose so that he’ll get a good, high pressure sinus-full. Repeat until bored of the screaming.) [QUOTE=Ranchoth] Or if you really want to get diabolical, _don’t_ torture them. At all. Just…make them watch. :eek: [/QUOTE] Better yet : let them _listen_ but not see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586.md?page=3)