# what forms of torture do not leave any physical marks or evidence **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586 "2013-10-18T16:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/41 "2013-10-20T08:09:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I do believe they’re one and the same. Although Coke or extra-fizzy lemonade would presumably work better for the Ginger Beer Trick - more acidic. > > (for non-Pratchett readers, the Ginger Beer Trick goes thus : pick a guy, tie him down, shake a bottle of fizzy drink until it’s good and ready to pop, then quickly open it right next to the guy’s nose so that he’ll get a good, high pressure sinus-full. Repeat until bored of the screaming.) The concept most definitely didn’t originate with Pratchett, but he did use it to devastating effect in _Night Watch_. My recollection is of stories of the Mexican police apparently using CocaCola in the same way in the late 70s/early 80s, along with the telephone book/truncheon beating. I did read a lot of thriller novels of dubious provenance in my teens, though. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/42 "2013-10-20T09:08:39Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have never heard that a common goal of torture is to cause damage to serve as a warning. I don’t believe that is true for most reasons for torture. There are only certain situations where that is a main goal (criminal organizations for example). In those cases, the victims may have something like their fingers cut off to serve as an obvious warning to others but I don’t consider that to be the same as torture. I think it falls more into the revenge and psychological warfare category. Revenge, psychological warfare, trying to draw “confessions” or to get prisoners to identify other enemies of the state, sadism or sometimes simple boredom on the part of low-paid prison officers. There are any number of reasons why it could be used. And they don’t need to leave marks to send a message. The message gets out easily enough anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/43 "2013-10-20T14:02:56Z")
Calvin Trillin wrote of the Philippines’ Marcos as using political prisoners to break in Imelda’s shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/44 "2013-10-20T15:07:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (for non-Pratchett readers, the Ginger Beer Trick goes thus : pick a guy, tie him down, shake a bottle of fizzy drink until it’s good and ready to pop, then quickly open it right next to the guy’s nose so that he’ll get a good, high pressure sinus-full. Repeat until bored of the screaming.) I got the impression that noses weren’t involved. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/45 "2013-10-20T17:19:47Z")
Well, there are indeed other sensitive mucous membranes available… But FWIW, Pratchett himself said he had the nose in mind : [[QUOTE=lspace.org](http://QUOTE=lspace.org)] There has been much confusion on alt.fan.pratchett concerning what exactly constitutes the ‘ginger beer trick’, and which bodily orifices are involved. Terry says: “To save debate running wild: I’ve heard this attributed to the Mexican police as a cheap way of getting a suspect to talk and which, happily, does not leave a mark. The carbonated beverage of choice was Coca-Cola. Hint: expanding bubbles, and the sensitivity of the sinuses. I seem to recall a brief shot of something very like this in the movie _[Traffic](http://www.imdb.com/M/title-substring?traffic)_.” Both Amnesty Internation and Human Rights Watch confirm that this kind of torture is regularly reported as being used by the Mexican police. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/46 "2013-10-21T01:10:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I do believe they’re one and the same. Let me guess - you’ve never tried ginger beer before right? ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586/47 "2013-10-21T01:29:53Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Using padded ankle cuffs, suspend the [del]mime[/del] suspect upside down over a pit of scorpions. As an added touch, I like the idea of hanging a sign that says “Use the words” upside down on one of the walls of the pit. > > I’ve read ginger beer works well. Is that very different from ginger ale? Hanging from limbs is very dangerous and leaves all kinds of marks. The famous example is stigmata. Jesus could not have been crucified through his palms as they couldn’t support his weight and would tear through the palm completely. Even hanging upside down for too long by the legs can cause damage. One of the famous tortures used by the US is to have the arms tied behind the back and then elevated to shoulder height. Just staying in this position for too long can cause rotator cuff tearing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-forms-of-torture-do-not-leave-any-physical-marks-or-evidence/671586.md?page=2)