# What four players would you put on your NBA Mount Rushmore? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200 "2014-02-13T00:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/81 "2014-02-17T23:50:39Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Comparative advantage vs absolute advantage. Lebron certainly has the absolute advantage over Wade. I won’t dispute that. However, if you pick Lebron as your ball handler, you’re marginalizing Wade’s abilities and Wade makes for a worse off-ball player than Lebron. True, but as LeBron is a brilliant on-ball player and merely a very, very good off-ball one, the cure is worse than the disease. Wade isn’t an ideal running mate for LeBron, but he fits in well enough. LeBron dumps it into Wade on the block, finds him on cuts, and gets him dribble handoffs. Wade typically gets to run the second unit’s offense when LeBron’s resting. He gets his. > [@pancakes3](#): > > I think a pick and roll would work better with Wade as the guard and lebron as the pick man. The problem there is that Bosh is a top-2 guy screening for a pick and pop (he’s neck and neck with Dirk Nowitzki), so the 2-5 or 3-5 pick and pop is always going to be the better play than a 2-3 or 3-2. > [@pancakes3](#): > > I think Lebron is better off finishing oops than throwing it. I think Lebron posting up, or making cuts is better than Wade posting up and making cuts. Then again, Wade scored 21 ppg last year on 15.8 fga per game, and shot 52%. He’s not exactly being frozen out. > [@pancakes3](#): > > I won’t dispute that either. Lebron has unbelievable handles and as far as guys who are 6’8 250lbs+ goes, nobody else comes close. I just don’t think he’s able to do what Bird was able to do, specifically with regard with being able to make passes without acting like a point guard. It’s a very hard thing to do. That may well be, put since both guys put up 6-7 assists per game, the mechanics of it doesn’t really matter. Both made the passes they needed to make in their systems and their eras. > [@pancakes3](#): > > Look, all I was trying to say originally is that even though Bird is only 36th on the career assists list, his passing is understated. My gripes about Lebron’s play probably borderlines the nitpicky but when you’re trying to get your face put on Mt. Rushmore, nits are all there’s left to pick. Sure, I defended Bird on that count as well. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/82 "2014-02-17T23:55:31Z")
One other thing about Kareem vs. Duncan that I forgot: Kareem’s prime years coincided with the ABA years, meaning the level of talent and especially athleticism was artificially low, as the ABA was overpaying top players to come to their league. Conversely, Duncan competed when the talent pool was growing deeper, as foreign players were coming in. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/83 "2014-02-18T15:52:45Z")
(_My apologies if this has been posted…_) Bill Russell weighs in on Lebron’s Mount Rushmore speculation… “_Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore. I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college. I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, and nine in between. That, Mr. James, is etched in stone_.” Who said Bill Russell wasn’t good at offense? For a great athlete, Lebron James sure does worry a lot about what others think of him. When he played, Russell never gave a crap, nor did Jordan or Bird. Lebron is pathetic. Just play your ass off, and, when you’re done, just let others debate your lasting contributions to the NBA. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/84 "2014-02-18T16:05:06Z")
Jeez. Russell is too good for that kind of preposterous oversensitivity. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/85 "2014-02-18T16:23:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Jeez. Russell is too good for that kind of preposterous oversensitivity. He’s 80 years old and been retired for 45 years, and an elder statesman of American Sports. It’s not like he’s 29 years old and still playing. About a few years after Russell had retired, an interviewer asked Bill, “Who was the greatest NBA center?” Russell responded quickly with, “Oh Wilt was the best, definitely,” then after a pause, he added, “But I was better.” And then broke into his patented cackle. Russell was an offensive force at USF, but Auerbach got him for his defensive prowess to complete a team that already had all the offense they needed with Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman at guard. Russell accepted that role and performed it as well as any NBA player ever performed their role. Nonetheless, in a few NBA playoff series, Russell was the Celtics’ high-scorer, no doubt taking advantage of a team without a decent center. Russell’s putdown of a twit like Lebron is classic. I hope it becomes a part of Lebron’s legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/86 "2014-02-18T16:35:00Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > He’s 80 years old and been retired for 45 years, and an elder statesman of American Sports. Exactly. You’d think an Elder Statesman wouldn’t get that annoyed by LeBron’s answer to a question somebody else asked him. I know Russell is kind of a prickly guy, but he should know better. And it’s passive-aggressive and disingenuous to say “It’s a team game… now let me list the championships _I_ won.” Not that it counts for much, but it lowers my estimation of Bill Russell a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/87 "2014-02-18T16:47:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Jeez. Russell is too good for that kind of preposterous oversensitivity. Seems like par for the course Russell to me. I recall in the 1980s some TV guy interviewed Russell and asked how he’d stop Abdul-Jabbar and Russell said, “Young man, you have the question backwards.” ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/88 "2014-02-18T16:50:33Z")
Who better to say what should be said than the elder statesman of the game? Bird, Magic and Jordan are still involved with sports, so, you never know they might end up on the same side some day. James’ pathetic plea for recognition reminds me of the time I met Reggie Jackson. Reggie was near the end of his career, and doing a promotional gig for Panasonic, and being a fan I snuck in. Jackson talked and took questions from a small crowd of about 50, and what was painfully obvious, was how concerned he was about what his legacy would be and where he’d finish on the all-time homer list. I was stunned that this man who’d accomplished more in his profession than 99.9% of the population, was so concerned of what WE (baseball fans) thought of him. If L. James retired tomorrow, what he’ll be most remembered for is “The Announcement.” That will get him a place on the Mount Rushmore of “most pathetic celebrities” along with Reggie, Pete Rose and Britney Spears. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/89 "2014-02-18T16:52:29Z")
I’ll remember that time he crushed the Celtics in the playoffs and won a championship. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/90 "2014-02-18T16:57:49Z")
I’ll remember him for being the most versatile defender in the history of the sport. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/91 "2014-02-18T16:58:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll remember that time he crushed the Celtics in the playoffs and won a championship. I’ll remember him as one of the greatest players ever, and a dominant force in the current NBA. Yes, the Decision was a horrible idea, but I’m not sure how many times he has to apologize for it to appease people. Maybe he has to tattoo “I shouldn’t have done the Decision” on his forehead before people can get over a stupid mistake and actually respect him as an amazing player and not a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/92 "2014-02-18T17:00:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll remember that time he crushed the Celtics in the playoffs and won a championship. Great player, Less filling. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/93 "2014-02-18T17:05:39Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > … > Yes, the Decision was a horrible idea, but I’m not sure how many times he has to apologize for it to appease people. … You don’t apologize. If you’re asked about, you just give the cryptic non-answer, “It is what it is.” Unless you’re so deathly, concerned what people are going to think and then you apologize over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/94 "2014-02-18T17:05:52Z")
I believe I’ll remember and delight in the literal insanity he inspired in certain corners when he transformed inevitably from “choker” to inescapable force of nature, requiring ever more, um, poetic justifications for devaluing him. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/95 "2014-02-18T17:13:15Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I believe I’ll remember and delight in the literal insanity he inspired in certain corners when he transformed inevitably from “choker” to inescapable force of nature, requiring ever more, um, poetic justifications for devaluing him. Sorry, but you’ll never find me devaluing James’ talent, skill or accomplishments on the court. But we’ll see what his legacy is, after he retires. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/96 "2014-02-18T17:14:26Z")
When I think about NBA players, I don’t think so much about their accomplishments on the court or the memorable games they played or the awards and titles they won- I think about how they argued in the media and apologized for stuff. That’s the stuff that lasts, man. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/97 "2014-02-18T17:27:59Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > You don’t apologize. If you’re asked about, you just give the cryptic non-answer, “It is what it is.” Unless you’re so deathly, concerned what people are going to think and then you apologize over and over. So, if he damned if he doesn’t answer, and damned if he apologizes too much. As I said, there is no way for him to win, some people will always look at the Decision as the only thing that matters about Lebron, not his apologies, or his skills, not his talent, not his hard work, not his production, win or titles. “The way it panned out with all the friends and family and the fans back home, I apologize for the way it happened. I knew this opportunity was once in a lifetime.” or “If I had to go back on it, I probably would do it a little bit different,” or "“If I could look back on it I would probably change a lot of it,” he said. “The fact of having a whole TV special, and people getting the opportunity to watch me make a decision on where I wanted to play, I probably would change that. Because I can now look and see if the shoe was on the other foot and I was a fan, and I was very passionate about one player, and he decided to leave, I would be upset too about the way he handled it.” ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/98 "2014-02-18T17:36:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When I think about NBA players, I don’t think so much about their accomplishments on the court or the memorable games they played or the awards and titles they won- I think about how they argued in the media and apologized for stuff. That’s the stuff that lasts, man. When I discuss a Mount Rushmore of Basketball, I think about players’ legacies. This is different from choosing an all-time NBA team. Russell won 11 championships in 13 years, most of the time having to go through Chamberlain. Russell and Wilt helped the NBA become a Major Professional Sport in just its decade. Bird & Magic certainly elevated the game. Jordan won 6 championships on a team without a dominant big man. Jabbar played at a high level for two decades. All of these mentioned are 1) Great players and 2) Made a valuable, enduring contribution to the league. LeBron is a great player, who’s contribution to the league is “The Decision,” so far. Let him play the rest of his career. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/99 "2014-02-18T17:47:05Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > LeBron is a great player, who’s contribution to the league is “The Decision,” so far. Not the four MVP awards and two championships? Not the fact that he’s put up several of the best seasons by any player ever? If you’re going to be a huge homer, just admit it instead of defending Russell and going on and on about The Decision and everything he’s said about it in the last three years. You’re hijacking a much more interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200/100 "2014-02-18T17:49:37Z")
Russell’s legacy also involves his leadership in the civil rights movement. For all they did on the court, there are few others mentioned in this thread who contributed anything off the court. Some, like Jordan, made a point of keeping to themselves to keep their sponsor-managed images intact. Magic tried to be but just didn’t. When you also consider how Russell controlled Chamberlain in all those championship finals, he would have to be the first one to be sculpted on Rushmore. Jordan was the best performer ever, so he’s on anyway. John Wooden was the greatest coach and one of the greatest leaders of young men ever, so he’s on. He was a damn fine player as a young man, too. Bird. As already discussed, there’s nobody else you’d rather give the ball to in Game 7, 2 points down with a second to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-four-players-would-you-put-on-your-nba-mount-rushmore/681200.md?page=6)