# What fraction of Texas windturbines were frozen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267 "2021-02-19T04:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/21 "2021-02-19T22:15:49Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > The power generation companies will blame the wind turbine manufacturers, the turbine manufacturers will blame the companies for not winterizing or blame utilities not supplied by the turbine companies,…,; There won’t be someone to fully blame or sue. Yeah, there will be someone to blame- The Republican Governors of TX. > **[Dallas County Judge Blames Power Crisis on Gov. Abbott's Regulations](https://www.newsweek.com/dallas-county-judge-says-gov-abbott-consciously-chose-regulations-that-led-power-crisis-1570289)** > > The judge blames the ongoing power crisis on the current and former governors of Texas for failing to include winterization requirements in their regulations. _As the power crisis in Texas continues to leave many without heat during a winter storm, Governor Greg Abbott has tried to [shift fault onto renewable energy sources](https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-green-energy-power-cuts-texas-1569922). But Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins says Abbott himself is largely to blame._ _“The fold of this lies squarely on [former Governor] [Rick Perry](https://www.newsweek.com/texas-power-cuts-rick-perry-federal-government-renewables-1570117) and the current governor, Greg Abbott,” Jenkins told [CNN](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/cnn)’s Alisyn Camerota on Thursday. “They and their team passed the regulations to tell people whether or not they need to winterize. They chose not to tell companies to winterize—that need to winterize—which in a regulatory environment for a commodity is telling people not to winterize.”_ ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/22 "2021-02-19T22:35:13Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Can that power actually get to Texas? I thought the ERCOT grid had no interties to the rest of the continent. ERCOT’s grid has only very limited and low-capacity interties, but the Texas Panhandle and part of northeastern Texas are not on ERCOT’s grid; they’re in the Southwest Power Pool, so the Saskatchewan power could indeed reach those areas. See the [SPP map](https://spp.org/). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/23 "2021-02-19T22:36:04Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > The cheap idiots didn’t buy the “winterize” upgrade for the windturbines. WHat a shock. They froze in extremely cold weather. Sounds like there were a lot of cheap idiots who didn’t buy the winter upgrade for various components of the energy system, including gas wells and pipelines, powerplants including gas and nuclear, etc. [Article.](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/) [Article.](https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/counties/matagorda_county/nuclear-reactor-in-matagorda-county-shutoff-because-of-weather-concerns/article_7126430a-709a-11eb-a770-cb3d1f5f9219.html) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/24 "2021-02-19T23:00:20Z")
That’s really interesting. One thing I was thinking, when they initiate “rotational load shedding” (just learned this term), do they do that by cutting off production from some sources? Texas kicked off the blackouts at 1:25 that morning, so that’s about the right timing. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/25 "2021-02-19T23:16:42Z")
Indeed, both SA and TX had poor grid management from what you described, with TX having the added onus of failing to heed “lessons learned”. Having the system default be that the generation asset safes itself upon detecting a more-than-momentary issue with the transmission load _is_ a normal practice in both design and management. Because an overload at a generating plant or a main transmission switch can mean you lose it for months, not just days. But the utility has to have in mind possible scenarios for when they design the control protocols for what backs up what when. ISTM part of the problem in TX was that they took it for granted that they could always just throttle up the other conventional plants, light the peaking units, and do rolling interruptions on the fly. And that they expected that effects would be localized and not all across the place. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/26 "2021-02-19T23:47:44Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And that they expected that effects would be localized and not all across the place. But isn’t the term “electrical grid”, which suggests that what happens in A may affect what happens in B? 🧐 Or am I over-thinking what passes for “regulatory analysis” in the free state of Texas? 🤠 ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/27 "2021-02-20T02:26:06Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > The cheap idiots didn’t buy the “winterize” upgrade for the windturbines. WHat a shock. They froze in extremely cold weather. Like putting the wrong oil in your car. Don’t blame the car when it doesn’t start. Apparently Texas doesn’t believe in winterizing ANY form of power generation. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/28 "2021-02-20T19:07:21Z")
Relevant, I think. > **[Why wind turbines in New York keep working in bitter cold weather unlike the...](https://www.syracuse.com/business/2021/02/why-wind-turbines-in-new-york-state-keep-working-in-bitter-cold-weather-unlike-the-ones-in-texas.html)** > > New York's biggest wind power operator explains how it's done. Basically: winterizing wind turbines is understood and doable; but it costs money. Texas didn’t think they needed to spend the money. The total amount of money people will need to spend repairing damage from this is going to be considerable; though I don’t know whether they’ll count everybody’s broken pipes in official figures. Plus which, of course, there were lives lost. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/29 "2021-02-20T21:11:56Z")
The point of “100 year” analysis is to tell what preventative measures _should_ be taken, not to say what is rare and shouldn’t be. A given permanent structure has a very high chance of experiencing at least one 100 year event during its lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/30 "2021-02-20T22:02:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins says Abbott himself is largely to blame. If the judge is overseeing a case related to the matter and he’s commenting on it, based on the evidence presented in court, then we can safely say that the judge is a nut since - whether he has greater access to evidence or not - you can’t comment on a case you’re overseeing. (My skim through the article said that he isn’t - but feel free to correct that if wrong.) If the judge is not overseeing a case, then he has no greater access to evidence than you or I and his view on the matter has about as much authority as mine or yours. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/31 "2021-02-20T22:10:46Z")
A county judge in Texas is a county councillor or commissioner. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/32 "2021-02-21T01:19:16Z")
Thank you. I’ve seen references before to Texas judges commenting on political matters and wondered what was up with that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/33 "2021-02-21T03:05:48Z")
It is worth noting that wind power works just fine in cold climates. Loads of examples of it. That the people who built them in Texas went cheap and did not build them for a cold snap is not an indictment on wind power. It is an indictment on the cheapskates who built them. Live in a state that eschews regulation and things like this result. This is true of other power generation methods in Texas which also failed due to the cold. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/34 "2021-02-21T03:20:38Z")
Yes, as the shipment of power from Saskatchewan demonstrates. We’ve been hovering around -35 C for the past two weeks, with no power shortages. The polar vortex came through us _en route_ to points south. That doesn’t mean Texas should build everything as if they will routinely get -35 cold snaps every winter. There is always a cost benefit analysis to these things. However, there should be a way to build a bit more robustness into the system to deal with these events, shouldn’t there? (Not an EE, obviously, so I’m just speculating there. ) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/35 "2021-02-21T03:43:57Z")
Sure. I think the point is that the government should make sure there are fall-backs when things get weird in their power production. Texas decided they hate regulations so much they will just leave it up to each provider to do as they see fit. That works fine in a normal, predictable environment but falls apart when special circumstances occur. This was one of those and Texas had no recourse to cover short-falls in power and people died as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/36 "2021-02-21T07:53:38Z")
> **[Sweden tells Texas how to keep turbines spinning in freezing weather](https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/539460-sweden-tells-texas-how-to-keep-turbines-spinning-in/)** > > The country uses heating technology to keep its wind turbines operational. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/37 "2021-02-21T15:48:52Z")
Here’s a CBC article about the North American grid, the differences in regulatory mindset, and steps taken to ensure the system works in cold weather: > **[What caused the deadly power outages in Texas and how Canada's grid compares...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/power-outages-texas-canada-1.5920833)** > > Millions of people in Texas were left shivering without power, heat and running water for several days this week and at least 30 died after a severe winter storm crippled power plants and the electricity grid. How did that happen? And could Canada... > [@](#): > > While most power plants in Canada are designed for winter weather and housed in buildings, that’s not the case in Texas, said Emily Grubert, assistant professor of environmental engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology, [in an interview with CBC’s _The Current_](https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-63-the-current/clip/15825369-what-learn-texas-blackout). > > “They might not have walls even, in quite the same way,” she said. “They might not have insulated pipes.… The whole grid was subject to extreme conditions that it was not designed to handle.” > > [Gas supplies](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/) and [water intakes](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/texas-power-outages-alberta-1.5917052) were frozen, for example, and unable to feed the power plants. > > However, Grubert said, there have been many questions about whether the plants _should_ have been designed to handle this type of weather. > … > The problem wasn’t just lack of time, but the fact Texas is a fully deregulated electricity market that doesn’t necessarily have the same central long-term planning authorities that exist in Canada, Bradley said. > > “The market signals don’t necessarily move in the right direction to facilitate these kinds of long-term investments that are required.” > … > In Canada, Bradley said, most systems are regulated. Ontario and Alberta have partially deregulated electricity systems, he said, but still have strong regional long-term planning and regulation to ensure the provinces are prepared for extreme events that could impact the electricity system. > … > Electricity systems in Canada — and most systems across North America — have a backup source if their local power generation can’t meet demand for whatever reason. They’re connected to supplies in neighbouring provinces and states, often as part of larger regional grids, and can import power if needed. > > “Every province is connected either east-west or north-south, and in many cases both,” Bradley said. > > That’s not the case for Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/38 "2021-02-21T22:43:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > . It is an indictment on the cheapskates who built them For which the BBC model of “hiding the problem or pretending it doesn’t exist” is not a solution. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/39 "2021-02-22T04:37:25Z")
Interesting factoid here, slightly related- AOC raised $2M and is going to texas for relief efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267/40 "2021-02-22T04:47:46Z")
Why « factoid »? It’s accurate. Now close to $5 million. > **[AOC raises nearly $5 million in Texas relief efforts | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-texas-relief/index.html)** > > Democratic congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has amassed $4.7 million in her fundraising efforts to help Texans hard hit by last week's winter storm as of Sunday evening, according to her press secretary Ivet Contreras. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-fraction-of-texas-windturbines-were-frozen/933267.md?page=3)