# What good is auto racing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048 "2006-03-12T16:15:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/1 "2006-03-12T16:15:04Z")
You all know I like old cars. I subscribe to _Classic Motorsports_ (formerly _British Car_). Since they’ve expanded to include cars from all countries it’s become much better, since we now get to read about classic Porsches, Fiats, Alfas, Datsuns, etc. They always have articles on races from decades past, restorations of old racers, vintage car racing, and so forth. The point of auto racing, as I understand it, was that improvements in technologies would make their way into cars one could buy from the showroom. By using ‘street’ cars in races and rallies automakers have brought us cars that make more power while using less fuel, more aerodynamic bodies, improved chassis, better brakes, better suspensions, safer and more crashworthy structures, improved handling… You name it. In the days before computers I can see how auto racing was a great way of testing new ideas. But what about now? Do experiments in NASCAR cars find their way into Detroit Iron? What bits of F1 or CART cars find their way into the family coupé? Perhaps Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, and Ferarri gather good data by running GT races, and certainly there is prestige in winning. But will someone buy Marque X over Marque Y based on the results of a race? Is auto racing really still necessary to bring technological improvements to street cars? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/2 "2006-03-12T16:41:49Z")
I’d guess there are very few practical direct benefits of auto racing. Or pro football, basketball, baseball, hockey. I’d say the most significant benefit (of all of the above) is the influx of revenue the event brings to the city hosting it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/3 "2006-03-12T16:56:42Z")
With NASCAR, there is still the cachet of driving “the very same car Jeff Gordon used when he won Daytona.” Forget the fact that Jeff’s car was so tricked out that the “stock” in “stock car” goes down with “I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help you” as one of the biggest lies in history. Heck, no. I tell you, I’m driving the _same car_! That makes the 5 mph commute each morning a little more bearable, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/4 "2006-03-12T17:01:24Z")
I dunno, what good is people racing? ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/5 "2006-03-12T17:07:06Z")
So people can BET on it! ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/6 "2006-03-12T17:07:34Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > With NASCAR, there is still the cachet of driving “the very same car Jeff Gordon used when he won Daytona.” Forget the fact that Jeff’s car was so tricked out that the “stock” in “stock car” goes down with “I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help you” as one of the biggest lies in history. Heck, no. I tell you, I’m driving the _same car_! That makes the 5 mph commute each morning a little more bearable, I guess. I read an article recently about the team that builds and services a set of race cars. I don’t remember if they are NASCARs or stock cars. First they build this state of the art racing suspension, built a custom engine, brakes, etc. All of this is custom to racing. Then, they mold a shell that looks something like a streetcar would but out of custom materials. The exact details aren’t important though. Top it off with lightweight racing paint and voila, its a street car that they just happened to decide to race that day. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/7 "2006-03-12T17:34:23Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Or pro football, basketball, baseball, hockey. > [@silenus](#): > > With NASCAR, there is still the cachet of driving “the very same car Jeff Gordon used when he won Daytona.” > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > I dunno, what good is people racing? Not exactly what I’m looking for. What I mean is that in the olden days race cars were test beds for new technology. For example, it may have been a relatively easy thing to make a powerful engine; but what if you needed a powerful engine that would last through an endurance race? Such an engine, detuned a bit for street use, might make it into a production car. Or ground effects bodywork would tend to hold a racing car to the track better than a car that lacked such bodywork. Maybe this would result in a lighter-weight production car that uses aerodynamics to offset the lighter structure. In the late-'60s and early-'70s the Kamm tail was used on many racing cars. The Kamm tail found its way onto production cars. But are these innovations still being provided by racing? To use **Shagnasty** ’s example, will NASCAR cars result in mass-production cars with tubular space frames, fiberglass bodies, and special-purpose engines? Or have racing cars become so specialised that innovations in the field have little practical use on production models? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/8 "2006-03-12T17:39:08Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > With NASCAR, there is still the cachet of driving “the very same car Jeff Gordon used when he won Daytona.” Forget the fact that Jeff’s car was so tricked out that the “stock” in “stock car” goes down with “I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help you” as one of the biggest lies in history. Heck, no. I tell you, I’m driving the _same car_! That makes the 5 mph commute each morning a little more bearable, I guess. The NASCAR cars are not even highly “tricked-out” versions of stock cars. They’re completely unrelated. They run monstrous carbureted V8’s, four-speed manual transmissions, and the cars themselves are built on tube-frame chassis. The taillights and headlights are just stickers on the body panels. Everything is completely custom-made for NASCAR - I doubt they share a single part with the rest of the Ford/Chevy/Dodge/whatever model line. Literally, the only relationship they have with cars the manufacturers actually sell is the name. As for what technology comes out of racing, I don’t think NASCAR is producing anything. It’s pure entertainment, and advertising for the manufacturers. Formula One on the other hand - lots of stuff has come out of there. Most of it hasn’t made it’s way down to the family car yet, but some of it has. Traction control, stability control, carbon-fiber monocoques, carbon-ceramic brakes, sequential manual transmissions, not to mention a whole variety of engine-related improvements that I can’t enumerate. The engine in the new BMW M5 (a four-door family sedan, albeit an insanely fast one) is a Formula One-derived V10 producing 500hp, that revs to 8000 RPM. It’s a real bargain (literally) at only $80,000 or so. The Porsche Carrera GT’s engine was originally designed for Formula One, but repurposed for use in a road car when Porsche withdrew for some reason. That engine makes 612hp. A whole bunch of exotics use carbon-fiber frames instead of steel or aluminum: the Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo, McLaren F1, Mercedes-McLaren SLR, Pagani Zonda, Koeniggsegg CCR, and loads more. A whole bunch of non-exotics use carbon-fiber parts to save weight: the Nissan 350Z has a carbon-fiber driveshaft, for example. Most Ferraris and Porsches are available with carbon-ceramic brakes, which work better than conventional iron ones. Many mid-to-high-end cars are now available with sequential manual transmissions, which are essentially computer-controlled manuals. BMW and Ferrari are the two pioneers here - the technology first appeared in F1. And pretty much every car on the market today has computerized traction and stability control, which also came from F1. And really, the companies must think they’re getting something out of these programs, or some bean-counter would drop them. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/9 "2006-03-12T19:07:48Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > The NASCAR cars are not even highly “tricked-out” versions of stock cars. They’re completely unrelated. They run monstrous carbureted V8’s, four-speed manual transmissions, and the cars themselves are built on tube-frame chassis. The taillights and headlights are just stickers on the body panels. Everything is completely custom-made for NASCAR - I doubt they share a single part with the rest of the Ford/Chevy/Dodge/whatever model line. > > Literally, the only relationship they have with cars the manufacturers actually sell is the name. Not entirely true. The hood skin, roof panel and rear decklid come directly from the factory, and are identical to the pieces used on the street car. The cast-iron engine block must come from a production vehicle (usually pickup trucks these days.) And since when is a 350 small-block bored out to 358 c.i.d. “monstrous?” If this were the good old days of 427s or even 454s, I’d be with you on that, but a 350 small-block isn’t particularly monstrous. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/10 "2006-03-12T19:28:43Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > Not entirely true. The hood skin, roof panel and rear decklid come directly from the factory, and are identical to the pieces used on the street car. The cast-iron engine block must come from a production vehicle (usually pickup trucks these days.) Hmm, I did not know that. Interesting. > [@](#): > > And since when is a 350 small-block bored out to 358 c.i.d. “monstrous?” If this were the good old days of 427s or even 454s, I’d be with you on that, but a 350 small-block isn’t particularly monstrous. By modern standards, that is monstrous, at almost 6 liters. Especially considering that the largest engine available on the real Ford Fusion is only 3 (and the base engine is 2.3). ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-good-is-auto-racing/348048/11 "2006-03-12T21:23:26Z")
You want to try a fun experiment? go to [www.NASCAR.com](http://www.NASCAR.com) and try to find on that website just which model of a particular make is being used in the Nextel series. I took me several clicks before I got to Roush Racing and found a link to Ford racing where I got info about the Fusion that Greg Biffle is running. > [@Ford Racing](#): > > Obviously, the first thing is that we wanted to do is match or improve on the aero performance of the current car. We wanted to get at least an aerodynamic performance gain at the restrictor-plate races,” said Marcus, who keyed Ford’s redesign of the Taurus nose and tail in 2003. “Second, it had to look close to the production car that we’re going to use, so it had to have certain features built in. The hardest part is to make it all work within the constraints of NASCAR rules.”…Evolution makes you put new bodies on, regardless of whether the body style changes or not,” said Leslie. “When you build a car you really like in February, it’s going be behind when you get to November. In some years there is evolution with no body change and in other years there is evolution with different pieces. \*\*it had to look close to the production car \*\* in other words it has to go fast but kinda sorta look stock. **The hardest part is to make it all work within the constraints of NASCAR rules.** Translation = We can only cheat so far, then they catch us. **When you build a car you really like in February, it’s going be behind when you get to November** Translation = Sometimes we don’t cheat as fast as the other guys. **In some years there is evolution with no body change** Translation = We found a way to cheat without changing the body. **in other years there is evolution with different pieces** Translation = we have to change the body to keep up. If that sounds like they are racing stock cars to you, you need new batteries in your clue meter. Stock Fusion is a 2.3L I4 engine with 160 HP \*\*FRONT WHEEL DRIVE NASCAR Fusion is a what 6 liter V8 with god only know how many horse power and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Sure they are stock. Yup can hardly tell the difference.