# What great MLB players will be left untainted by the steroid era? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195 "2009-05-12T18:22:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/21 "2009-05-12T20:29:21Z")
Marley23: > [@](#): > > …I believe Canseco named him specifically as a user. Neither of which proves anything… Hmm…my understanding is that as much of a rat as Canseco has been to his (former) buddies, his dirt has pretty much been on the money. I guess I have to view I-Rod with significant suspicion. Ah, well, at least my post also named Piazza. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/22 "2009-05-12T20:32:45Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Oh, and Ichiro. Steroids are a problem in cycling and all of them (okay, most) are smaller than Ichiro. I’m not saying he’s on anything, but judging by size (and appearance in general) is pretty much pointless. I don’t think anyone will be left untainted. I’m not even comfortable enough to go out on a limb to name a person who I don’t think is on steroids. Frank Thomas comes to mind because he has spoken out against PEDs in an in an almost accepting fashion and seems to have a normal career arc. If it comes to pass that he was someone who tested positive in 2003 (or whenever it was), I wouldn’t be shocked. Even though Maddux wasn’t a power pitcher and was reasonably healthy (as I understand things, certain injuries can be indicators - joints and such) with no late career surge, I’m still not willing to put myself out there on his behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/23 "2009-05-12T20:39:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Off the top of my head, I would pick Ken Griffey Jr. (his 600+ homeruns are more meaningful to me than all of Bonds’), Derek Jeter (I know he’s smug, but, as far as I know, he’s not a cheater) and Mariano Rivera (owner of the single most feared pitch of a generation – maybe the best single pitch in the history of the game). You read my mind, I came in to pick all three, although we disagree on Jeter’s smugness. I \<3 Junior ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/24 "2009-05-12T20:40:51Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Hmm…my understanding is that as much of a rat as Canseco has been to his (former) buddies, his dirt has pretty much been on the money. It has been as far as I know, but I’m reluctant to trust him due to his many years of consistent douchebaggery. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/25 "2009-05-12T20:52:03Z")
It is not just steroids. There is HGH and I am sure there are other chemicals we do not even know about. There are labs all over the world working on newer and better performance enhancing drugs. Balco was hard at work developing better drugs and ways to mask the ones we knew about when they got busted. They had developed a drug system with several drugs and training methodology involved. I am sure they are not the only lab doing that. We can never be sure a player is clean again. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/26 "2009-05-12T21:02:42Z")
I don’t want to be completely cynical, but I think we’ve learned that we can’t be sure ANYBODY’s clean. Look, I have absolutely no reason to be suspicious of Greg Maddux. He’s never done anything to raise eyebrows. I’m quite prepared to believe he’s clean as a whistle. But I don’t know that. Nobody does. It’s not all about six packs and bulging biceps, after all. Remember, when testing was first implemented, a lot of the players busted were pitchers, and not even particularly good pitchers. A mediocre middle innings reliever might use steroids just to help his arm recover, so he wouldn’t ever have to tell the manager, “Sorry Skip, I’m too tired to pitch today.” No, Greg Maddux never magically started throwing heat… but how do I know he didn’t start taking steroids late in his career, to PROLONG his career? Nobody can just look at a player and say, “He doesn’t have a Mr. Universe physique, he MUST be clean.” ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/27 "2009-05-13T02:33:04Z")
I’d say Tony Gwynn is likely to be clean. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/28 "2009-05-13T02:48:41Z")
Earlier today I was looking for something unrelated, and came across this revealing poll from 2003. [2003 Sports Illustrated Players Survey](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/01/survey/) More interesting bits related to this topic: > [@](#): > > 1. Who’s the greatest living player? > Barry Bonds 38.9% > Alex Rodriguez 12.8% > Willie Mays 12.1% > Nolan Ryan 7.1% > Hank Aaron 6.7% > Pete Rose 3.6% > Roger Clemens 1.9% > Stan Musial 1.7% > Babe Ruth 1.5% > Roberto Alomar 0.8% I think those answers would be greatly changed today (and worry about some of the answers even then - Babe Ruth got votes for greatest LIVING player?) > [@](#): > > 1. Whom would you most like to play with? > Alex Rodriguez, Rangers 16.6% > Barry Bonds, Giants 7.0% > Roger Clemens, Yankees 6.5% > Sammy Sosa, Cubs 3.5% > Jeff Bagwell, Astros 3.1% > Greg Maddux, Braves 3.1% > Derek Jeter, Yankees 2.8% > Scott Rolen, Cardinals 2.8% > Jason Giambi, Yankees 2.6% > [@](#): > > 1. Who gets the most from the least talent? > David Eckstein, Angels 62.2% > Craig Counsell, Diamondbacks 6.7% > Jamie Moyer, Mariners 4.8% > Joe McEwing, Mets 2.7% > Kevin Millar, Red Sox 1.7% > Juan Pierre, Marlins 1.2% > Albert Pujols, Cardinals 1.0% > Brad Ausmus, Astros 1.0% > Eric Byrnes, Athletics 0.7% > Greg Maddux, Braves 0.7% > Mike Sweeney, Royals 0.7% and finally > [@](#): > > 1. The current drug-testing policy … > Is adequate as is 40.7% > Should be more stringent 36.5% > Don’t know 15.2% > Should be abolished 7.6% > Inside the Numbers > > • Pitchers (41.4 %) favor more stringent testing more than hitters (31.5%). > • Among players with one year of experience or less, 54.5% want more stringent testing. > • Among players who earn $10 million or more a year, 50.0% think the system is adequate as is. ---
**Author:** ![Wargamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Wargamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wargamer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/29 "2009-05-13T17:55:35Z")
When the steroids issue hit big, the first thing I thought of was that Jimmy Morris (the Devil Rays 39 year old rookie pitcher who’s story was the basis for the movie _The Rookie_) had to have been a candidate for being a juicer. How sad is it that steroids have robbed us of the ability to believe a good story? I would not be shocked to find ANY player in the Majors in the late 80s-2004 associated with PEDs. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/30 "2009-05-13T18:22:16Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I don’t want to be completely cynical, but I think we’ve learned that we can’t be sure ANYBODY’s clean. Right, we used to limit our suspicions (well, certainties usually, let’s be honest) to the big muscle guys. Then we came to understand the part about quicker recoveries, and that every player could benefit from it regardless of body type or position played. I agree we have to assume everyone did it, or everyone but a few fools perhaps. We can’t be sure of anyone’s claim to have been clean, and that’s a shame because it’s unprovable. Now, if only we could get as interested in athletes’ use of amphetamines … or maybe we should be less interested in steroids? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/31 "2009-05-13T18:56:37Z")
> [@Wargamer](#): > > How sad is it that steroids have robbed us of the ability to believe a good story? I would not be shocked to find ANY player in the Majors in the late 80s-2004 associated with PEDs. I don’t know; sportswriters seem to fall for it over and over again. Everybody’s more cynical except the people who are paid to be. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/32 "2009-05-14T03:58:34Z")
> [@Wargamer](#): > > When the steroids issue hit big, the first thing I thought of was that Jimmy Morris (the Devil Rays 39 year old rookie pitcher who’s story was the basis for the movie _The Rookie_) had to have been a candidate for being a juicer. 35 years old, but Dennis Quaid certainly looked older in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195/33 "2009-05-14T16:31:33Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > This is the saddest part about this entire era - there is no person listed in this thread that I feel 100% confident about. Maddux is probably the closest, but there are still similar players that have been implicated. The list of the guilty (or presumed guilty) include such disparate players as Roger Clemens, Neifi Perez, Alex Sanchez, Barry Bonds, Ryan Franklin. I can’t think of a single player profile or career path that doesn’t have a comp in the PED hall of shame. This will become clear when some of the so-called “clean” players become eligible for the Hall. I suspect 5-20% of all voters will refuse to vote for anyone from this era just because of guilt-by-association. It won’t take too many such voters to keep all but the “no-brainer” choices out of the Hall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-great-mlb-players-will-be-left-untainted-by-the-steroid-era/496195.md?page=1)